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Old 06-29-2010, 12:42 PM   #7
dosugxxx

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Oct 2005
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Sounds to me like the quibble is with the Buddha, not Venerable Bodhi.
"Monks, these two slander the Tathagata. Which two? He who explains what was not said or spoken by the Tathagata as said or spoken by the Tathagata. And he who explains what was said or spoken by the Tathagata as not said or spoken by the Tathagata. These are two who slander the Tathagata."


-- AN 2.23 PTS: A i 59 (II,iii,3) Abhasita Sutta: What Was Not Said



It is Bodhi who quibbles with the Buddha, and twists the Buddha's teachings to suit his own Brahmin worldview.


Kindly cite a sutta in which the phrase "three lives" crosses the Buddha's lips. Or one in which the Buddha teaches that "consciousness" is the gandhabba, or one in which the Buddha teaches "stream of consciousness transmigrates from life to life", or one in which the phrase "stream of consciousness" crosses the Buddha's lips. I'll be waiting right here for your citations.



The Pali Canon is filled with teachings emphasising rebirth.
There are teachings addressed to folks who believe in such things, and they are tailored to make sense to one who has such beliefs. The Buddha's own liberative teachings are reincarnation/"rebirth"-free.

Back then there were differing opinions of what happened after death - still today there are differing understandings of what happens after death.
Yes, the Buddha called them all a "wilderness of views, a thicket of views, a canker, an arrow".

It was Right Speech then and it is Right Speech now.
Actually, it is "right view with defilements" -- meaning, a view that is based in superstition, in ignorance, in clinging to sensuality and self-view, but which nonetheless leads one to moral behaviour. The Buddha distinguished this sort of view from his own liberative teachings.

If it is not important to you - why quibble with the Venerable? Just let it be.
It speaks to the question of whether we are practising "Buddhism" here -- meaning the teachings of the Buddha -- or Brahminism and Hinduism in a Buddha suit, like Bodhi is.

Views or understandings are important enough to be one of the main parts of the Eight Fold path - and there is a time and place to be "stuck on views".
The Buddha's "Noble Right View" is based entirely in discernment, defined in terms of discernment, and has nothing to do with superstitions like "rebirth". Its ethics is defined clearly in the Veludvareyya Suttas, and is an ethics of reciprocity, rather than carrot-and-stick superstition.




I'm "stuck"...
I would not be the one to argue against your complaint of being stuck. You have my most heartfelt sympathies.


To teach a view or understanding as presented by the Buddha is not a fault.
Glad we agree on that point. However, the Buddha called misrepresenting his teachings -- like Bodhi does here and elsewhere -- "Slandering the Tathagata."

By your standards - Nibbana must not be a part of Buddhadhamma
WTF are you talking about? Nibbana is the extinguishment of suffering, here and now. Perhaps you are thinking of the annihilationist "nirvana" of the tibetan religions and should be posting in that forum instead....?

or do you wish to announce to all your direct verification?
I can directly verify that with the extinguishment of ignorance comes the extinguishment of suffering, here and now. You can't????

Should kamma and dependent origination be dropped from all Buddhist teachings because most of us cannot directly verify them?
Whose version of kamma are you talking about, Kimosabe? Hindu-karma? Sure. Intention, as the Buddha defined it? Of course not!

-- But really, we would hate to see you advocating dropping paticcasamuppada from the Buddha's teachings, because paticcasamuppada is the Buddha's teachings. Sorry to hear that you cannot directly verify intention or paticcasamuppada. It is actually quite easy. Perhaps you just don't understand them enough to do so.

we are remiss in neglecting them.
Well, its never too late for you to make a fresh start at it.

dosugxxx is offline


 

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