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**LesLattis** · 07-19-2010, 02:09 AM

Now from the remainderless fading & cessation of that very ignorance comes the cessation of fabrications. From the cessation of fabrications comes the cessation of consciousness.

Analysis of Dependent Co-arising

This should not be taken literally as "cessation of consciousness" because by eliminating ignorance the Buddha did not lose consciousness. IMO, the conditionality should be

Mental Fabrications -> Tainted consciousness

Mental Fabrications (or fabricators as some like to call it) would be things like mental perceptions. My question is, why isn't the sutta clear on that? It is not the sutta that is unclear, but the translation. Think of DO as a Garbage-In, Garbage Out model that explains the process by which ignorance (as the Buddha defined it) influences a person's mental processes in ways that lead to suffering.

It can be telescoped down in many ways, and parts of it can be demonstrated in chunks, such as the "eighteen elements" or the "thirty elements". Compacted down to its simplest form, we can look at it thus:

Ignorance --> The Organism --> Suffering

And, conversely:

Absence of Ignorance --> The Organism --> No Suffering

"Cessation" is a poor translation for "nirodho". It means "cooling down", and the analogy is that of something that is on fire, that is burning. With the cooling of the fire of ignorance, there is the cooling of that fire in the sankharas. And so on.

07-19-2010, 02:09 AM	#7
LesLattis Join Date Oct 2005 Posts 616 Senior Member	Now from the remainderless fading & cessation of that very ignorance comes the cessation of fabrications. From the cessation of fabrications comes the cessation of consciousness. Analysis of Dependent Co-arising This should not be taken literally as "cessation of consciousness" because by eliminating ignorance the Buddha did not lose consciousness. IMO, the conditionality should be Mental Fabrications -> Tainted consciousness Mental Fabrications (or fabricators as some like to call it) would be things like mental perceptions. My question is, why isn't the sutta clear on that? It is not the sutta that is unclear, but the translation. Think of DO as a Garbage-In, Garbage Out model that explains the process by which ignorance (as the Buddha defined it) influences a person's mental processes in ways that lead to suffering. It can be telescoped down in many ways, and parts of it can be demonstrated in chunks, such as the "eighteen elements" or the "thirty elements". Compacted down to its simplest form, we can look at it thus: Ignorance --> The Organism --> Suffering And, conversely: Absence of Ignorance --> The Organism --> No Suffering "Cessation" is a poor translation for "nirodho". It means "cooling down", and the analogy is that of something that is on fire, that is burning. With the cooling of the fire of ignorance, there is the cooling of that fire in the sankharas. And so on.
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