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**conurgenceDen** · 01-31-2007, 03:07 AM

Each of us must take our own path, and make sense of things as they happen to each of us. That isn't always happen easily.

For me, personally, I MUST believe that there is more out there than the things we see in our day to day lives. I have been, and will return to, the spirit realm. I have seen and communicated with spirits. I have seen the results of their interventions, numerous times. I have seen the emptiness that has occurred when they have been ignored. Do the presence of spirits dictate that there must be a deity or deities? No, but their awareness far exceeds our own, and THEY believe in such. That doesn't mean that each person is at a place in their path that they can believe in a Deity. Further, it doesn't mean that those who do believe, can find themselves to love the Deity.

On the other hand, I can only breath so long before my knowledge and intelligence will tell me that there is oxygen in the air that allows me to do so. But I can't see the oxygen. Knowledge and intelligence tells me sooner or later that walking out into traffic could lead to death. Yet I've never experienced it. Knowledge and intelligence has taught me that happiness is healthier than depression, yet I've not died (yet) from depression. Knowledge and intelligence has showed me that another persons beliefs are no better nor no worse than my own, yet I have not lived another person's life. Do I have all the answers? No...if I did, I would BE the deity. But there are too many things that convince me day by day that there must be a deity. I believe that sooner or later, every thinking and feeling person will come to the same conclusion. Maybe that is hopeful thinking, based only on my experiences. I am only 50, only a third of the way through my life on work, so it is entirely that I am looking at it from the aspect of my "childhood". But if I'm wrong, what harm? If I felt the other way, and I'm wrong, THEN what harm? I think it is pretty clear that being wrong one way would make no difference at all, but being wrong the other way would be a great way to rob myself of happiness and prevent me from helping others in good and valid ways. So I'll continue believing.

I would not ask you to stop believing what you believe Rex. But even our beliefs change, what once seemed reasonable and logical, was even felt inside, becomes a puff of smoke one day and we create a new belief. Lest we give up all growth for ourselves as human beings, develop our minds unfettered from the false hopes of religious and spiritual paths.

For me, it's not real. Many years ago I was more or less a happy agnostic when I first came here. I went through this pagan stuff, thinking I was finally connecting with my spiritual side. I realized that it was all inside me already, no intervention from a named religion or spirituality was ever needed. My spirit is me, and the recognition of that comes only from what my mind conveys to me. The total value of the deeds I do and life I lived will be assessed by others in the end, I won't be there having the slightest inkling about what they thought about it all. What I do for me is all that is important, especially surviving in a world that seems to be hellbent on becoming uglier and uglier each year.

01-31-2007, 03:07 AM	#8
conurgenceDen Join Date Oct 2005 Posts 405 Senior Member	Each of us must take our own path, and make sense of things as they happen to each of us. That isn't always happen easily. For me, personally, I MUST believe that there is more out there than the things we see in our day to day lives. I have been, and will return to, the spirit realm. I have seen and communicated with spirits. I have seen the results of their interventions, numerous times. I have seen the emptiness that has occurred when they have been ignored. Do the presence of spirits dictate that there must be a deity or deities? No, but their awareness far exceeds our own, and THEY believe in such. That doesn't mean that each person is at a place in their path that they can believe in a Deity. Further, it doesn't mean that those who do believe, can find themselves to love the Deity. On the other hand, I can only breath so long before my knowledge and intelligence will tell me that there is oxygen in the air that allows me to do so. But I can't see the oxygen. Knowledge and intelligence tells me sooner or later that walking out into traffic could lead to death. Yet I've never experienced it. Knowledge and intelligence has taught me that happiness is healthier than depression, yet I've not died (yet) from depression. Knowledge and intelligence has showed me that another persons beliefs are no better nor no worse than my own, yet I have not lived another person's life. Do I have all the answers? No...if I did, I would BE the deity. But there are too many things that convince me day by day that there must be a deity. I believe that sooner or later, every thinking and feeling person will come to the same conclusion. Maybe that is hopeful thinking, based only on my experiences. I am only 50, only a third of the way through my life on work, so it is entirely that I am looking at it from the aspect of my "childhood". But if I'm wrong, what harm? If I felt the other way, and I'm wrong, THEN what harm? I think it is pretty clear that being wrong one way would make no difference at all, but being wrong the other way would be a great way to rob myself of happiness and prevent me from helping others in good and valid ways. So I'll continue believing. I would not ask you to stop believing what you believe Rex. But even our beliefs change, what once seemed reasonable and logical, was even felt inside, becomes a puff of smoke one day and we create a new belief. Lest we give up all growth for ourselves as human beings, develop our minds unfettered from the false hopes of religious and spiritual paths. For me, it's not real. Many years ago I was more or less a happy agnostic when I first came here. I went through this pagan stuff, thinking I was finally connecting with my spiritual side. I realized that it was all inside me already, no intervention from a named religion or spirituality was ever needed. My spirit is me, and the recognition of that comes only from what my mind conveys to me. The total value of the deeds I do and life I lived will be assessed by others in the end, I won't be there having the slightest inkling about what they thought about it all. What I do for me is all that is important, especially surviving in a world that seems to be hellbent on becoming uglier and uglier each year.
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