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**iroxmxinau** · 04-19-2010, 12:39 PM

1 Timothy 2:3-4: This is good, and pleases God our Savior, who wants all men to be saved and to come to a knowledge of the truth."

How can it be that an all All-loving God would allow His children to fall away from Him and choose death over life? Is He not omnipotent? Couldn't He if He wished have everyone saved and avoid us altogether the unnecessary experiences of sufferings and difficulties and sadness? The Orthodox answer is that He could have, as there is no limit to God and He transcendes all human understanding.

But perhaps our misunderstanding lies in assuming that such sufferings are indeed unnecessary. Was Christ's death on the cross unnecesarry? We have been revealed the King on a donkey riding into Jerusalem. We have been revealed a crucified savior as the Way to everlasting life. If we are to call ourselves disciples of Christ, than we must believe Him when He tells us that satan is the prince of this world and that in this world we will be persecuted and ridiculed and mocked. Who have been persecuted and have endured throughout the ages, holding fast to the teachings of Christ? Where is His Church which is His Body within this world? Lets clear up misunderstandings lest we follow the masses and wander down the broad gates which leads to perdition.

The Church is the salt of the earth as He taught on the Sermon on the Mount. Like tiny grains of salt which when applied to food serves to preserve it and protect it from the forces of corruption all around. And though in numbers much less in amount and weight compared to the food it is applied to, it will act to protect the entire body of food it is in contact with.

Similarly, the saints, though less in numbers, preserve His Body (which is the Church). Through their prayers and intercessions, the Church endures by the Grace of God.

Unfortunately, as the salt becomes less and less available and in smaller and smaller amounts, then corruption begins to gain ground and putrefaction occurs. And while the early undivided Church flourished in those centuries of martyrs and holy men and women, it has since been rejected and torn asunder and the number of saints have decreased. St. John tells us that the Final Day of Judgment will come after the great falling away (apostasy) at which time the corruptible forces of satan would be just about to overcome the gates of hell and threaten to destroy all of creation. I speculate that at that time, the Church in terms of numbers will be in its least relative amount in all history, less than 10% if we choose that number.

Also in John 12:32 But I, when I am lifted up from the earth, will draw all men to myself." Jesus did draw all men to Himself when He rose from the dead and destroyed death. His resurrection affected all men ever born, all the way back to Adam.

God wants all men to be saved. God cares about numbers because He loves each and everyone of us. Jesus sacrificed His life and suffered for all of us, not just for the sake of a "pure" elite. So I humbly believe that part of the goal for Christians is "numerical superiority" so as to save as many as possible, which is why missionary activity is so important I humbly believe you are in error if you believe that numerical amounts trump purity and righteousness. This is not attested to historically nor scripturally. In fact it is clearly stated by Christ that few will find the kingdom of God. Not most, not many, not some. Few. If this doesn't contradict your statement, I don't know what else to say.

04-19-2010, 12:39 PM	#18
iroxmxinau Join Date Oct 2005 Posts 404 Senior Member	1 Timothy 2:3-4: This is good, and pleases God our Savior, who wants all men to be saved and to come to a knowledge of the truth." How can it be that an all All-loving God would allow His children to fall away from Him and choose death over life? Is He not omnipotent? Couldn't He if He wished have everyone saved and avoid us altogether the unnecessary experiences of sufferings and difficulties and sadness? The Orthodox answer is that He could have, as there is no limit to God and He transcendes all human understanding. But perhaps our misunderstanding lies in assuming that such sufferings are indeed unnecessary. Was Christ's death on the cross unnecesarry? We have been revealed the King on a donkey riding into Jerusalem. We have been revealed a crucified savior as the Way to everlasting life. If we are to call ourselves disciples of Christ, than we must believe Him when He tells us that satan is the prince of this world and that in this world we will be persecuted and ridiculed and mocked. Who have been persecuted and have endured throughout the ages, holding fast to the teachings of Christ? Where is His Church which is His Body within this world? Lets clear up misunderstandings lest we follow the masses and wander down the broad gates which leads to perdition. The Church is the salt of the earth as He taught on the Sermon on the Mount. Like tiny grains of salt which when applied to food serves to preserve it and protect it from the forces of corruption all around. And though in numbers much less in amount and weight compared to the food it is applied to, it will act to protect the entire body of food it is in contact with. Similarly, the saints, though less in numbers, preserve His Body (which is the Church). Through their prayers and intercessions, the Church endures by the Grace of God. Unfortunately, as the salt becomes less and less available and in smaller and smaller amounts, then corruption begins to gain ground and putrefaction occurs. And while the early undivided Church flourished in those centuries of martyrs and holy men and women, it has since been rejected and torn asunder and the number of saints have decreased. St. John tells us that the Final Day of Judgment will come after the great falling away (apostasy) at which time the corruptible forces of satan would be just about to overcome the gates of hell and threaten to destroy all of creation. I speculate that at that time, the Church in terms of numbers will be in its least relative amount in all history, less than 10% if we choose that number. Also in John 12:32 But I, when I am lifted up from the earth, will draw all men to myself." Jesus did draw all men to Himself when He rose from the dead and destroyed death. His resurrection affected all men ever born, all the way back to Adam. God wants all men to be saved. God cares about numbers because He loves each and everyone of us. Jesus sacrificed His life and suffered for all of us, not just for the sake of a "pure" elite. So I humbly believe that part of the goal for Christians is "numerical superiority" so as to save as many as possible, which is why missionary activity is so important I humbly believe you are in error if you believe that numerical amounts trump purity and righteousness. This is not attested to historically nor scripturally. In fact it is clearly stated by Christ that few will find the kingdom of God. Not most, not many, not some. Few. If this doesn't contradict your statement, I don't know what else to say.
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