[HotDolly]

Alice, being a Christian nation does not gain God's favor. He causes the rain to fall on the righteous and the unrighteous. It is a curious thing, for cities have been saved by faith, but martyrs have also been put to death because of their faith. However, it is both theologically and practically dangerous to equate success with blessedness. I could also debate what you mean by Christian... but that takes this thread even further off. I will say that it is strange that a nation who's slaughtered a number of children greater than the population of her largest state California... would be called a Christian nation by anyone.

I can't agree with Owen, I think the negative far outweigh the possible "pedagogical" value. A sermon from our Bishop when he visits saying simply that abortion is a sin, as is supporting abortion and there is no equivocation for 2000 years of tradition on this matter, would be more effective than a piece of paper covered with heterodox signatures.

To write such a "common" document it was required to avoid all the messy business of how we all disagree and in fact though we happen to agree in some reasonable sense on particular social issues, we cannot commonly defend those positions because our rationale is different... in fact, often opposing. If we were forced by the powers of progressive secularism to defend this declaration it would fold like a house of cards because there is no foundation for it.

Yes, abortion is sin, perhaps the most grievous horror outside genocide as it has been implemented as social policy. However, this declaration will not stop abortion. If the activists among us really want to stop abortion they will have to take up arms to do so. Legally, it is a finished matter in 1st world nations, and culturally the support for it has too much at stake (the entire liberal agenda rests on this issue).

This is all a game we play instead of really doing the hard world of living a Christian life. Instead of giving alms to the poor and praying, and going to services, and living pious, sober lives of necessity (not luxury) the game of thrones we play is a substitute and a charade. Let us take half the energy we put to signing declarations and joining facebook groups and sending money to support "causes" or religiously involving ourselves in the body politic (watching cable news when we should be praying) and put that energy towards loving our neighbor.

I'm sorry if this seems to border on polemic. As I said, the posts I linked to said this much better than I.

Let us see when they come to arrest the dissenters which of us will march off to prison (or worse) and which will fold. I suspect the loudest voices have the least endurance.

I am going to say something a large number of people will not listen to (because it is terribly inconvenient) I have PERSONALLY spoken to some of the most conservative members of the American Supreme Court (when they came to visit where I work). They universally agree that while some minor modifications to Roe v Wade as law might be possible (even liberals admit that there are some legal difficulties with the decision)... abortion on demand will NEVER (did you see that word?) NEVER become illegal in the United States.

That fight is over. Done, finished. And don't give me that out "if God wills it" ... does a doctor keep pounding on the chest of a dead man for hours thinking "if God wills this man will live". This has nothing to do with what God can do. Of course, God can do anything. But He has chosen not to, nor gives any reason to believe He will do something greater.

I am beginning to see why so many of the early fathers sought martyrdom. There is clarity in it. There is nothing but confusion coming out of the "Manhattan Deception"