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**arerrurrY** · 07-07-2009, 09:50 AM

There is a difference between the general oppression of the population and the persecution of the Church. The Church did have a period of respite from persecution from 1945 to 1953. (Stalin bestowed honours on hierarchs who had raised morale during WWII. He also received Metropolitan Elias of Lebanon with great courtesy and presented him with an icon of the Kazan Mother of God which Stalin had ordered to be carried into battle in a number of engagements, including Stalingrad and Leningrad.) The scale of oppression of the population as a whole continued after 1945 but this decreased after 1953 and the camps were closed in the late 1960s. The persecution of the Church by Khrushchev as great as it had been before WWII. Whatever I mention about Stalin must not be read as any sort of sympathy for him - he was a cynical, murderous tyrant.

There is no difference between "the general oppression of the population and the persecution of the Church" in the same country and in the same time. There is no difference for a believer. Many believers were closed in the mental institutions during communism in Russia, or were killed, or sent to prison camps.

Yes you are right that many people in Russia turned briefly to God during WWII, but then most abandoned Church again. However to mention that Stalin ordered an icon to be in a battle, is not a good deed but is even more accusing for him, since he closed his eyes to this miracle and to the protection of God during that horrid war. It is like St. Constantine the Great to use the vision he saw just for his personal/military interest and then "discard" God and persecute Christians afterwards even more.

As to communism, it was not the same in Russia from the late 1950s until the late 1980s as it was in Albania. True, it was not healthy for one's career to be a Christian and dissidents were persecuted. But for the mass of the population, there were the highest standards of educational, health care, employment, cultural and other benefits, as well as a high sense of morality. This was true in other communist countries. I have a friend in the former Yugoslavia who lives in Banja Luka, Serbia. In the 1980s, he went on business to California. He was offered a good job there but turned it down because he and his family had such a good life in Serbia. Ha ha ha Andreas you win! Communism was a blessing for Russia! Who knew? People lived so well. And a high "sense of morality"? Bravooo! What we can't achieve with so much Confession and Holy Communion, Sacraments and spiritual warfare, communism achieved it in the blink of the eye! Building the "new person" they called it. However note that this new person was disrobed by anything Godly and molded in the fear and terror of the communist party.

So you know now how people lived in Albania also under communism? Let me tell you: Albania had the same things (healthcare, high educational standards, and all the things you mention that were in Russia) and people who came from the communist elite (all its different echelons) were able to travel abroad for business, or pleasure. But the people who tell you about the "benefits" of living under communism never told you about living in suffocation? Can you understand the concept of lack of freedom? Do they ever tell you about the race for becoming the uberman (or at least as uber as the party would allow them)? Or do these people's consciences ever hurt? These are just the people who enjoyed the privileges and had their lives dictated by the communist party and now feel lost without the party telling them what to do and where to go. This is how many feel. Actually in West Germany they ridicule this nonsense nostalgia for the communist era people from the east have, by calling it Ostalgie instead of nostalgia (Ost - East in German).

It is amazing how actually Father Arseny describes these people quite metamorphosed by communism in Russia:

In a way this is natural. People have lived through too much, through too much difficulty. Everything was done to eradicate faith from the souls of the people. Conditions were such that it became necessary to think only about how to survive, to overcome the obstacles which had been created. Just look at the life which has now been created: radio, magazines, television, newspapers, cinemas and theater create a standardized way of thinking, the same for everyone. This leads to a person being unable to be alone with his own thoughts, to feel the presence of God.

The pace of today's life, so quick, and so constantly pressured, makes people think only according to how somebody wants them to. A person is never alone; even when he is sent to a sanatorium or rest home for a rest, there is always a definite rhythm and program to follow, everything is decided for you. People are fed, informed, and taught what someone else decided they need. Huge numbers of people are gathered together, but they are separated by the daily battle for life.

All this has affected even believers, brought them closer to the 'norm', made them indifferent. A prescribed way of thinking makes it difficult for a person to become a believer and makes it difficult for the believer to preserve his faith. But do remember, Christ's Church will live eternally even under these circumstances. Preserve your faith, fight for individuality of thought, pray more, read the Scriptures, and God will preserve you, He will not let you lose the clarity of your thoughts, He will not let you think like the faceless mass of indifferent and cold people.

07-07-2009, 09:50 AM	#15
arerrurrY Join Date Nov 2005 Posts 411 Senior Member	There is a difference between the general oppression of the population and the persecution of the Church. The Church did have a period of respite from persecution from 1945 to 1953. (Stalin bestowed honours on hierarchs who had raised morale during WWII. He also received Metropolitan Elias of Lebanon with great courtesy and presented him with an icon of the Kazan Mother of God which Stalin had ordered to be carried into battle in a number of engagements, including Stalingrad and Leningrad.) The scale of oppression of the population as a whole continued after 1945 but this decreased after 1953 and the camps were closed in the late 1960s. The persecution of the Church by Khrushchev as great as it had been before WWII. Whatever I mention about Stalin must not be read as any sort of sympathy for him - he was a cynical, murderous tyrant. There is no difference between "the general oppression of the population and the persecution of the Church" in the same country and in the same time. There is no difference for a believer. Many believers were closed in the mental institutions during communism in Russia, or were killed, or sent to prison camps. Yes you are right that many people in Russia turned briefly to God during WWII, but then most abandoned Church again. However to mention that Stalin ordered an icon to be in a battle, is not a good deed but is even more accusing for him, since he closed his eyes to this miracle and to the protection of God during that horrid war. It is like St. Constantine the Great to use the vision he saw just for his personal/military interest and then "discard" God and persecute Christians afterwards even more. As to communism, it was not the same in Russia from the late 1950s until the late 1980s as it was in Albania. True, it was not healthy for one's career to be a Christian and dissidents were persecuted. But for the mass of the population, there were the highest standards of educational, health care, employment, cultural and other benefits, as well as a high sense of morality. This was true in other communist countries. I have a friend in the former Yugoslavia who lives in Banja Luka, Serbia. In the 1980s, he went on business to California. He was offered a good job there but turned it down because he and his family had such a good life in Serbia. Ha ha ha Andreas you win! Communism was a blessing for Russia! Who knew? People lived so well. And a high "sense of morality"? Bravooo! What we can't achieve with so much Confession and Holy Communion, Sacraments and spiritual warfare, communism achieved it in the blink of the eye! Building the "new person" they called it. However note that this new person was disrobed by anything Godly and molded in the fear and terror of the communist party. So you know now how people lived in Albania also under communism? Let me tell you: Albania had the same things (healthcare, high educational standards, and all the things you mention that were in Russia) and people who came from the communist elite (all its different echelons) were able to travel abroad for business, or pleasure. But the people who tell you about the "benefits" of living under communism never told you about living in suffocation? Can you understand the concept of lack of freedom? Do they ever tell you about the race for becoming the uberman (or at least as uber as the party would allow them)? Or do these people's consciences ever hurt? These are just the people who enjoyed the privileges and had their lives dictated by the communist party and now feel lost without the party telling them what to do and where to go. This is how many feel. Actually in West Germany they ridicule this nonsense nostalgia for the communist era people from the east have, by calling it Ostalgie instead of nostalgia (Ost - East in German). It is amazing how actually Father Arseny describes these people quite metamorphosed by communism in Russia: In a way this is natural. People have lived through too much, through too much difficulty. Everything was done to eradicate faith from the souls of the people. Conditions were such that it became necessary to think only about how to survive, to overcome the obstacles which had been created. Just look at the life which has now been created: radio, magazines, television, newspapers, cinemas and theater create a standardized way of thinking, the same for everyone. This leads to a person being unable to be alone with his own thoughts, to feel the presence of God. The pace of today's life, so quick, and so constantly pressured, makes people think only according to how somebody wants them to. A person is never alone; even when he is sent to a sanatorium or rest home for a rest, there is always a definite rhythm and program to follow, everything is decided for you. People are fed, informed, and taught what someone else decided they need. Huge numbers of people are gathered together, but they are separated by the daily battle for life. All this has affected even believers, brought them closer to the 'norm', made them indifferent. A prescribed way of thinking makes it difficult for a person to become a believer and makes it difficult for the believer to preserve his faith. But do remember, Christ's Church will live eternally even under these circumstances. Preserve your faith, fight for individuality of thought, pray more, read the Scriptures, and God will preserve you, He will not let you lose the clarity of your thoughts, He will not let you think like the faceless mass of indifferent and cold people.
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