[mensforyouthis]

Alice and Liz articulated a point which I meant but did not make clear yet which is worth emphasising: that is the difference between grace and a feeling of grace. Of course there is grace in the Russian Orthodox Church. But I'm sure all of us, including, if I may so presume, Nina, react in varying ways to certain churches and to the services in them. Sometimes we are moved and sometimes we are not. Yes, we should look at ourselves as Nina says, but we alone are not responsible for our reactions.

In responding to Brendan's posts I would by no means want to paint a wholly negative picture of the Church in Russia. I have had many wonderful times in churches and monasteries there and there is much that I admire about the ROC. At the same time, one must be realistic. Yes, there are miraculous things happening there, including in our own parish church in Moscow. If you asks Russians why the rich throw so much money at churches and monasteries, they will tell that it is more from fear than anything. Fear of hell is a dominating factor in the mind of many Russian Orthodox Christians. A rich man feels he can help himself by giving lots of money to the church and having his name commemorated in liturgies for years. I cannot agree with Brendan that it is no longer the case that corrupt business men and officials have the influence they did in the 90s. I have personal knowledge about this. The rich and powerful act as they wish and the government seems either unable or unwilling effectively to curb this. As to the official and formal character of the ROC, I am told that it was like that before 1917. It is certainly true, though, that Church and State do co-operate in many ways. Brendan gives us a very telling expression: 'a population unaccustomed to living without fear'. Russians are always afraid of something or someone. Hell, rulers, officials and authority of any kind, gangsters, their own police. Fear goes hand in hand with suspicion. It also causes people to be very individuated. Priests in Russia will tell people to look after their own souls and the salvation of others is not their business. Consequently, there's much faith but little evidence of charity. Everyone should look after himself. The common general attitude is, 'it's your problem'. A truly Orthodox society would overflow with love, charity and fellowship. But then, I don't suppose such a society exists anywhere.