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**limpoporanique** · 09-25-2006, 10:40 PM

I have heard Malcolm Brabant's report on BBC Radio in recent days, but have not had the chance to see any (more detailed) press or online reports. From what I can remember, the monks at Esphigmenou have been at odds with the Greek hierarchy for much longer than 30 years, it may go as far back as the adoption of the new calendar by the Greek church in the 1920s, and relations were not improved by the various "inter-faith" activities of subsequent patriarchs. It is certainly not a recent conflict, and the Esphigmenou brotherhood seem particularly intransigent to compromise, as reflected in their motto.

My personal view, Ryan, is that disobedience to one's bishop (including a patriarch) where that bishop or patriarch's edicts are not heretical would be grounds for excommunication. Of course, many in the Orthodox world do regard adoption of the Gregorian calendar as heresy; I, for what it's worth, do not. Irregularity, perhaps; heresy, no. I would be interested in what Fr David, Fr Raphael et al have to say.

Perceived motive and way in which one tries to accomplishes things at times count for just as much as whether the thing is correct in itself.

In the case of the Calendar change the continued belief of many that it was part of a conscious effort to make the Church more acceptable to the west & the use of violence has affected how many see the change. Even in churches like that in Russia which are not at all Old Calendrists like Old Calendar Greek- the feeling is very high vs calendar change. This is connected to a general anti-western feeling as Russia finds her identity in the midst of a 'globalised world'. Similar feelings are held by Serbs but I can't speak for any other Orthodox not knowing the situation well enough.

In other words a lot of this comes down to identity in regards to who we are as Orthodox. Since we live in the midst of an overwhelmingly secular, globalised world, there is strong resistance to this from some of our Orthodox brethren. And this is especially so for those who live in countries with a non-western culture; and who especially after the fall of communism are trying to find their identity. As it turns out the Church has played a large role in this and so traditional forms of life in the Church- like the calendar- become very important ways of marking ones life in distinction to that of the surrounding world. Actually I have Russians in my parish- especially the newer arrivals from age 30-50 or so- who also relate to the calendar and tradition of the Church in a very similar way as they go about their business of going to work or school every day.

In Christ- Fr Raphael

09-25-2006, 10:40 PM	#7
limpoporanique Join Date Oct 2005 Posts 483 Senior Member	I have heard Malcolm Brabant's report on BBC Radio in recent days, but have not had the chance to see any (more detailed) press or online reports. From what I can remember, the monks at Esphigmenou have been at odds with the Greek hierarchy for much longer than 30 years, it may go as far back as the adoption of the new calendar by the Greek church in the 1920s, and relations were not improved by the various "inter-faith" activities of subsequent patriarchs. It is certainly not a recent conflict, and the Esphigmenou brotherhood seem particularly intransigent to compromise, as reflected in their motto. My personal view, Ryan, is that disobedience to one's bishop (including a patriarch) where that bishop or patriarch's edicts are not heretical would be grounds for excommunication. Of course, many in the Orthodox world do regard adoption of the Gregorian calendar as heresy; I, for what it's worth, do not. Irregularity, perhaps; heresy, no. I would be interested in what Fr David, Fr Raphael et al have to say. Perceived motive and way in which one tries to accomplishes things at times count for just as much as whether the thing is correct in itself. In the case of the Calendar change the continued belief of many that it was part of a conscious effort to make the Church more acceptable to the west & the use of violence has affected how many see the change. Even in churches like that in Russia which are not at all Old Calendrists like Old Calendar Greek- the feeling is very high vs calendar change. This is connected to a general anti-western feeling as Russia finds her identity in the midst of a 'globalised world'. Similar feelings are held by Serbs but I can't speak for any other Orthodox not knowing the situation well enough. In other words a lot of this comes down to identity in regards to who we are as Orthodox. Since we live in the midst of an overwhelmingly secular, globalised world, there is strong resistance to this from some of our Orthodox brethren. And this is especially so for those who live in countries with a non-western culture; and who especially after the fall of communism are trying to find their identity. As it turns out the Church has played a large role in this and so traditional forms of life in the Church- like the calendar- become very important ways of marking ones life in distinction to that of the surrounding world. Actually I have Russians in my parish- especially the newer arrivals from age 30-50 or so- who also relate to the calendar and tradition of the Church in a very similar way as they go about their business of going to work or school every day. In Christ- Fr Raphael
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