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**popsicesHoupe** · 10-31-2007, 11:14 PM

Mike, putting aside opinions and feelings for the moment, look at the facts.

Look at the distribution of the land, look at the laws that have been passed against the Arabs, look at what the Jews had in the past and what they have now. I was once very sympathetic to the Jews and what they had suffered at the hands of Nazi Germany, but look at what they are doing now.
Put yourself in the place of a Palestinian - an ordinary palestinian who has no connection with any groups terrorist or otherwise - I should say here that the word "terrorist" is subject to many meanings, it all depends on who is using it - and then ask yourself how you would feel towards the Israelis.

That is what I try to do as well. I don't get my information from TV either (actually, I watch almost no TV) but from newspapers, magazines, and books. Even there, I have to constantly cross-reference due to contradictory accounts. Figuring out who is telling the truth gets confusing. And putting myself in the place of an ordinary Palestinian or Israeli (I've tried to do both) may help me understand how they feel, but not who is right (if, indeed, anyone is).

Certainly "facts are facts". But "facts" aren't necessarily "truth". And when this set of "facts" contradicts that set of "facts" -- which is the situation I constantly run into -- then piecing together reality is a difficult proposition.

Add in that I've seen and read plenty of documentation of things considered to be "facts" which turned out to have been invented, distorted, faked, misrepresented, or etc. - in both directions - and sometimes I think there's no realistic chance of penetrating to "the truth". Fortunately, we don't need to know "the truth" about the situation before we can pray.

10-31-2007, 11:14 PM	#21
popsicesHoupe Join Date Oct 2005 Posts 417 Senior Member	Mike, putting aside opinions and feelings for the moment, look at the facts. Look at the distribution of the land, look at the laws that have been passed against the Arabs, look at what the Jews had in the past and what they have now. I was once very sympathetic to the Jews and what they had suffered at the hands of Nazi Germany, but look at what they are doing now. Put yourself in the place of a Palestinian - an ordinary palestinian who has no connection with any groups terrorist or otherwise - I should say here that the word "terrorist" is subject to many meanings, it all depends on who is using it - and then ask yourself how you would feel towards the Israelis. That is what I try to do as well. I don't get my information from TV either (actually, I watch almost no TV) but from newspapers, magazines, and books. Even there, I have to constantly cross-reference due to contradictory accounts. Figuring out who is telling the truth gets confusing. And putting myself in the place of an ordinary Palestinian or Israeli (I've tried to do both) may help me understand how they feel, but not who is right (if, indeed, anyone is). Certainly "facts are facts". But "facts" aren't necessarily "truth". And when this set of "facts" contradicts that set of "facts" -- which is the situation I constantly run into -- then piecing together reality is a difficult proposition. Add in that I've seen and read plenty of documentation of things considered to be "facts" which turned out to have been invented, distorted, faked, misrepresented, or etc. - in both directions - and sometimes I think there's no realistic chance of penetrating to "the truth". Fortunately, we don't need to know "the truth" about the situation before we can pray.
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