DiscussWorldIssues - Socio-Economic Religion and Political Uncensored Debate - View Single Post - Call to prayer

**acceraStoof** · 12-30-2007, 05:21 PM

We have to be careful not to base our views on human rights: those are things of the world. (It is human rights law that says homosexuals have the right to 'Gay Pride' marches, the banning of which in Moscow is so abhorrent to human rights activists.) As Alex Haig rightly says, prejudice can play no part in this. We have, rather, to base ourselves on Christian witness. The interesting question is, where is the balance between an active Christian witness and turning the other cheek? (Yes, I realise they can be the same thing.) Is violation of the English sense of 'fair play' something the Christian should react against? Christians who suffer persecution in Pakistan and Bethlehem are clear enough cases. But what of us who live in what is still predominantly a Christian country? Do we turn the other cheek - whatever that may mean in our situation - when a few members of a group (Islam) which is only 3% in society are hostile to us? St Paul tells us (Romans, chapter 13) that the civil authorities are the instruments of God against evildoers. If the Christian majority elects those authorities who then fail to have regard to our legitimate concerns, do we let them get away with it? Is turning the other cheek only a personal injunction for the individual Christian? Does a Christian community in a (relatively) free country having available to it proper means of protest do nothing?

Andreas, what question should we think about and answer first???
You have presented so many very interesting questions concerning our duties as christians that I feel we need a separate thread for this.

Don't you find it strange that a minority of only 3% in England is causing so much trouble? Do we turn the other cheek? Is being tolerant of Islam really a case of "turning the other cheek"?

Here in Greece and in other countries in this area we are well aware of what Islam is. Read this please : http://www.serfes.org/orthodox/memoryof.htm

For the sake of accuracy and for those who do not know the history of this region I should say that Smyrna was Greek in the past and its Christian inhabitants spoke Greek and considered themselves Greeks when the area was placed under Greek control.

Having said the above, we need to respect other religions.

"
Today many Orthodox Christians live in societies of cultural, linguistic and religious pluralism. This has cultivated and nourished a deeply-felt attitude of respect, tolerance and understanding toward other people and their religions. The Orthodox Church has no official pronouncement on this matter. However, the long-standing tradition of respect and tolerance for other faiths is well stated by Archbishop Anastasios: "Being created in the image of God, every human being is our brother and sister."[33]

Truth makes reference to the knowledge of being. Tolerance "Implies a certain relationship of religious faith with truth in every concrete manifestation in the world, whether national, political or sociological."[34] The source of all truth is God the Creator, who gives existence to all beings. "God is the originator and the human being is the receiver."[35]

It is a strongly-held Orthodox view that our commitment to Christian Truth affirms a pluralistic, democratic setting where all people can live in peace and harmony. Holding fast to the truth of Christianity, Orthodoxy defends the right of all religious expressions to co-exist harmoniously, in a setting of freedom, where equal protection is afforded to all under the law. "

The above is from http://www.goarch.org/en/ourfaith/ar...rticle8089.asp

Surely, though we can expect this same respect for ours. Would we enter an Islamic mosque to pray? Isn't being forced to listen to the Islamic call for prayers five times a day, an insidious way for Muslims to spread their faith and even perhaps to show their contempt for the Christian countries they are now living in. I'm not comparing but a little caution is not amiss. Are Christian churches allowed to ring their bells once a week in Muslim countries?

This is a translation of what we would hear over loudspeakers if this practice were permitted by law :

TRANSLATION OF THE
CALL TO PRAYER
God is most great. God is most great.
God is most great. God is most great.
I testify that there is no God except God.
I testify that there is no God except God.
I testify that Muhammad is the messenger of God.
I testify that Muhammad is the messenger of God.
Come to prayer! Come to prayer!
Come to success! Come to success!
God is most great. God is most great.
There is none worthy of worship except God.

From the above quote from http://www.goarch.org/en/ourfaith/ar...rticle8089.asp

"Holding fast to the truth of Christianity, Orthodoxy defends the right of all religious expressions to co-exist harmoniously, in a setting of freedom, where equal protection is afforded to all under the law. "

"Equal protection is afforded to all under the law" is, I think, what we all want.

12-30-2007, 05:21 PM	#12
acceraStoof Join Date Oct 2005 Posts 516 Senior Member	We have to be careful not to base our views on human rights: those are things of the world. (It is human rights law that says homosexuals have the right to 'Gay Pride' marches, the banning of which in Moscow is so abhorrent to human rights activists.) As Alex Haig rightly says, prejudice can play no part in this. We have, rather, to base ourselves on Christian witness. The interesting question is, where is the balance between an active Christian witness and turning the other cheek? (Yes, I realise they can be the same thing.) Is violation of the English sense of 'fair play' something the Christian should react against? Christians who suffer persecution in Pakistan and Bethlehem are clear enough cases. But what of us who live in what is still predominantly a Christian country? Do we turn the other cheek - whatever that may mean in our situation - when a few members of a group (Islam) which is only 3% in society are hostile to us? St Paul tells us (Romans, chapter 13) that the civil authorities are the instruments of God against evildoers. If the Christian majority elects those authorities who then fail to have regard to our legitimate concerns, do we let them get away with it? Is turning the other cheek only a personal injunction for the individual Christian? Does a Christian community in a (relatively) free country having available to it proper means of protest do nothing? Andreas, what question should we think about and answer first??? You have presented so many very interesting questions concerning our duties as christians that I feel we need a separate thread for this. Don't you find it strange that a minority of only 3% in England is causing so much trouble? Do we turn the other cheek? Is being tolerant of Islam really a case of "turning the other cheek"? Here in Greece and in other countries in this area we are well aware of what Islam is. Read this please : http://www.serfes.org/orthodox/memoryof.htm For the sake of accuracy and for those who do not know the history of this region I should say that Smyrna was Greek in the past and its Christian inhabitants spoke Greek and considered themselves Greeks when the area was placed under Greek control. Having said the above, we need to respect other religions. " Today many Orthodox Christians live in societies of cultural, linguistic and religious pluralism. This has cultivated and nourished a deeply-felt attitude of respect, tolerance and understanding toward other people and their religions. The Orthodox Church has no official pronouncement on this matter. However, the long-standing tradition of respect and tolerance for other faiths is well stated by Archbishop Anastasios: "Being created in the image of God, every human being is our brother and sister."[33] Truth makes reference to the knowledge of being. Tolerance "Implies a certain relationship of religious faith with truth in every concrete manifestation in the world, whether national, political or sociological."[34] The source of all truth is God the Creator, who gives existence to all beings. "God is the originator and the human being is the receiver."[35] It is a strongly-held Orthodox view that our commitment to Christian Truth affirms a pluralistic, democratic setting where all people can live in peace and harmony. Holding fast to the truth of Christianity, Orthodoxy defends the right of all religious expressions to co-exist harmoniously, in a setting of freedom, where equal protection is afforded to all under the law. " The above is from http://www.goarch.org/en/ourfaith/ar...rticle8089.asp Surely, though we can expect this same respect for ours. Would we enter an Islamic mosque to pray? Isn't being forced to listen to the Islamic call for prayers five times a day, an insidious way for Muslims to spread their faith and even perhaps to show their contempt for the Christian countries they are now living in. I'm not comparing but a little caution is not amiss. Are Christian churches allowed to ring their bells once a week in Muslim countries? This is a translation of what we would hear over loudspeakers if this practice were permitted by law : TRANSLATION OF THE CALL TO PRAYER God is most great. God is most great. God is most great. God is most great. I testify that there is no God except God. I testify that there is no God except God. I testify that Muhammad is the messenger of God. I testify that Muhammad is the messenger of God. Come to prayer! Come to prayer! Come to success! Come to success! God is most great. God is most great. There is none worthy of worship except God. From the above quote from http://www.goarch.org/en/ourfaith/ar...rticle8089.asp "Holding fast to the truth of Christianity, Orthodoxy defends the right of all religious expressions to co-exist harmoniously, in a setting of freedom, where equal protection is afforded to all under the law. " "Equal protection is afforded to all under the law" is, I think, what we all want.
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