DiscussWorldIssues - Socio-Economic Religion and Political Uncensored Debate - View Single Post

**jamemeveRhype** · 03-11-2006, 08:00 AM

Dear Rose

My original message stated:

Sorry this may not be based on Orthodoxy but I felt I had to post this. Please forgive me, I hope I don't offend anyone's pride by posting this. (By the way as a Christian you should not have pride anyway.)
This just made me laugh and cry at the same time. I'm not sure if you read this or not. One can't seriously base one's values and beliefs on national pride. You can't serve both masters.

My heart tells me you are offended and so I am compelled for some reason to apologise and say I am genuinely sorry.

However my mind tells me that there is something wrong with having too much national pride. I hope you and others realise that it's not a) healthy and b) a Christian virtue, to have a zealous pride and attachment to your identity and your own country.

Jesus talks of Mammon the master of this world:"No one can serve two masters. Either he will hate the one and love the other, or he will be devoted to the one and despise the other. .." (Matthew 6:24).

If you stick a spade into America it won't say " hey, you hurt me" or if I would shout abuses to a the Grand Canyon or a mountain it won't get angry or become ofended. So why do you hurt for a land which you will not even be able to take with you to the afterlife and which dosn't and cannnot hurt for you in return?

DO you honestly think God will separate us in Heaven? "Ok you belong to Australia, you belong to China, you were Japanese, you were Russian and you Italian, ah and you were Austrian you all go in that corner. Next!? Ah America!!! oh you don't have to worry, you pass judgement altogether, you go straight up those stairs follow the yellow line. Next!!! Oh too bad you were from Turkey you don't go to heaven, stand behind the Arabs, the Iraqis, the Indonesians and the French?!?!"

This is obviously not going to happen. Which leaves the question, what is the Orthodox/ Christian position on extreme Nationalism? In anycase what benefits (spiritual or mataerial) do we receive from being nationalistic and having zealous pride in our own country?

One may recall the days of Babel when the 'Babelonians' tried to build the tallest tower and to reach the heavens. This was probably the begining of national pride "Then they said, 'Come, let us build ourselves a city, with a tower that reaches to the heavens, so that we may make a name for ourselves and not be scattered over the face of the whole earth.'" We see here that mankind making a name for themeselves was not approved by god, we shouuld all consider ourselve equal under God. that's why the Holy Spirit mixed their tongues and they ceased this arrogant task.

Elsewhere The Holy Scriptures tell us constantly that God despises the proud and arrogant:

ie "The eyes of the arrogant man will be humbled and the pride of men brought low; the LORD alone will be exalted in that day. The LORD Almighty has a day in store for all the proud and lofty, for all that is exalted (and they will be humbled)...and the idols will totally disappear....stop trusting in mankind, who has but a breath in his nostrils. Of what account is he?#" (Isaiah 2:11,12,18,22).

As for Nations and rulers:

"Before him all the nations are as nothing; they are regarded by him as worthless and less than nothing. To whom, then, will you compare God? What image will you compare him to? As for an idol, a craftsman casts it, and a goldsmith overlays it with gold and fashions silver chains for it. A man too poor to present such an offering selects wood that will not rot. He looks for a skilled craftsman to set up an idol that will not topple. Do you not know? Have you not heard? Has it not been told you from the beginning? Have you not understood since the earth was founded? He sits enthroned above the circle of the earth, and its people are like grasshoppers. He stretches out the heavens like a canopy, and spreads them out like a tent to live in. He brings princes to naught and reduces the rulers of this world to nothing. No sooner are they planted, no sooner are they sown, no sooner do they take root in the ground, than he blows on them and they wither, and a whirlwind sweeps them away like chaff." (Isaiah 40:17-24)

03-11-2006, 08:00 AM	#6
jamemeveRhype Join Date Oct 2005 Posts 415 Senior Member	Dear Rose My original message stated: Sorry this may not be based on Orthodoxy but I felt I had to post this. Please forgive me, I hope I don't offend anyone's pride by posting this. (By the way as a Christian you should not have pride anyway.) This just made me laugh and cry at the same time. I'm not sure if you read this or not. One can't seriously base one's values and beliefs on national pride. You can't serve both masters. My heart tells me you are offended and so I am compelled for some reason to apologise and say I am genuinely sorry. However my mind tells me that there is something wrong with having too much national pride. I hope you and others realise that it's not a) healthy and b) a Christian virtue, to have a zealous pride and attachment to your identity and your own country. Jesus talks of Mammon the master of this world:"No one can serve two masters. Either he will hate the one and love the other, or he will be devoted to the one and despise the other. .." (Matthew 6:24). If you stick a spade into America it won't say " hey, you hurt me" or if I would shout abuses to a the Grand Canyon or a mountain it won't get angry or become ofended. So why do you hurt for a land which you will not even be able to take with you to the afterlife and which dosn't and cannnot hurt for you in return? DO you honestly think God will separate us in Heaven? "Ok you belong to Australia, you belong to China, you were Japanese, you were Russian and you Italian, ah and you were Austrian you all go in that corner. Next!? Ah America!!! oh you don't have to worry, you pass judgement altogether, you go straight up those stairs follow the yellow line. Next!!! Oh too bad you were from Turkey you don't go to heaven, stand behind the Arabs, the Iraqis, the Indonesians and the French?!?!" This is obviously not going to happen. Which leaves the question, what is the Orthodox/ Christian position on extreme Nationalism? In anycase what benefits (spiritual or mataerial) do we receive from being nationalistic and having zealous pride in our own country? One may recall the days of Babel when the 'Babelonians' tried to build the tallest tower and to reach the heavens. This was probably the begining of national pride "Then they said, 'Come, let us build ourselves a city, with a tower that reaches to the heavens, so that we may make a name for ourselves* and not be scattered over the face of the whole earth.*'" We see here that mankind making a name for themeselves was not approved by god, we shouuld all consider ourselve equal under God. that's why the Holy Spirit mixed their tongues and they ceased this arrogant task. Elsewhere The Holy Scriptures tell us constantly that God despises the proud and arrogant: ie "The eyes of the arrogant man will be humbled and the pride of men brought low; the LORD alone will be exalted in that day. The LORD Almighty has a day in store for all the proud and lofty, for all that is exalted (and they will be humbled)...and the idols will totally disappear....stop trusting in mankind, who has but a breath in his nostrils. Of what account is he?#" (Isaiah 2:11,12,18,22). As for Nations and rulers: "Before him all the nations are as nothing; they are regarded by him as worthless and less than nothing. To whom, then, will you compare God? What image will you compare him to? As for an idol, a craftsman casts it, and a goldsmith overlays it with gold and fashions silver chains for it. A man too poor to present such an offering selects wood that will not rot. He looks for a skilled craftsman to set up an idol that will not topple. Do you not know? Have you not heard? Has it not been told you from the beginning? Have you not understood since the earth was founded? He sits enthroned above the circle of the earth, and its people are like grasshoppers. He stretches out the heavens like a canopy, and spreads them out like a tent to live in. He brings princes to naught and reduces the rulers of this world to nothing. No sooner are they planted, no sooner are they sown, no sooner do they take root in the ground, than he blows on them and they wither, and a whirlwind sweeps them away like chaff." (Isaiah 40:17-24)
	Quote