[gastabegree]

Hello all.

Bucky you are absolutely correct, he was arrested after that, and also had been on probation prior to the incident in Singapore. He was a trouble-maker and was taught a lesson by the standing govenment's judicial system. Apparently not taught well enough though.

Steve, I agree 110%, and Seeker it is exactly as you had guessed Steve pointed out. Say what you will against whom you dislike, just keep it in the native language so that the tourists can't decipher it. It brings to mind the discussion many moons back about the the TV news broadcasts in English vs. those in Thai.

Someone politely stated that freedom of speech is not accepted with open arms quite yet in Thailand. Sure there is plenty of freedom, but what you do with your freedom will always have consequences i.e...fines, jail, or the all so famous revoked visa.

The most effective of the consequences though, I think, is the treatment you get from those around you. Thailand was mentioned as being a land with strong social values as opposed to the Western individualism set of ethics. It has great advantages with this 'construct', but there is one major pitfall with it. It forces thousands of opinions to follow the local social leader's opinion, or else the person who happens to be neutral or even agree would be considered an outcast or a traitor.

The caning in Singapore, surely there are many citizens that feel it is an unjust punishment after having been through it or having heard stories of it. But when it was considered an 'international human rights issue' not one would speak up. There is no way that anyone can say in a country that size that 100% of the people agree that the punishment is always justifiable. This is the point that we see the pitfall. Again this is my opinion.

Vision I agree with you again though. Forcing your own values onto another's is how wars have always started and how they will always start. But I also agree with what Seeker said about the HQ location of these groups always being where there is freedom. Globalization too probably is a major factor. Microsoft has a large programming facility (200 employees) in the middle of the farming community I live in. 90% of the current staff relocated to this area to get a raise. Only 10% are local employees. The cleaning crew consists of 15 people, they are local. So how many local coders are there? Last I heard there were 7. I am sure the freedom and available technology play the largest role though, not that the voices are actually Westernized entities.