DiscussWorldIssues - Socio-Economic Religion and Political Uncensored Debate - View Single Post - Haiti Should Beg Forgiveness For Occupying DR

**Mifsnavassy** · 07-20-2012, 08:46 PM

I agree with the poster who suggested that the guy was trying in a really blatant manner to earn points.

The period from 1795 to 1809 or even 1815 is a shambles on this island. Detailed accounts seem to indicate that in 1804, the new Republic of Haiti did have a claim to the eastern part of the island, since the French owned the whole island. However, given internal issues in Haiti and the fact that a Frenchman named Ferrand had established some "French" control over what was known as Santo Domingo, it would appear that they were not interested or were not capable of establishing their claim.

When Sánchez Ramírez defeated Ferrand in the Battle of Palo Hincado in 1808 (?) and eventually took the city of Santo Domingo in a convoluted series of events, I am always wondering if he raised the Spanish flag? I frankly do not know, but I suppose that is what he did. Spain, apparently responded with some support, although "on the books" the whole island still belonged to??? and here is where it gets interesting: France because she had not recognized the rebels in Haiti as a nation? Or Spain because she was supporting Sánchez Ramírez? Or Haiti because they had conquered the French, declared their independence and therefore "owned" everything that the French had "owned" before the revolution. Pick one, they are all valid to some degree.

So have a good day, be well, say hello to your friends, have a cold one, a wet one, and be nice.

HB

"That war [Haitian Revolution] didn't spilled into Dominican territory. Dessalines and military officers didn't had the vision of Toussaint. If Toussaint would had been alive, he would had imposed the extension of the independence operations to the eastern part of the island, which also were French territory and where the French military forces were located. But despite the occupation of 1801, the chiefs of the war of 1803 didn't managed to understand the doctrine of Toussaint, for whom the island was one and indivisible. As such, Dessalines and his military officers declared on the 1st of January, 1804 the establishment of the Republic of Haití, but didn't extended the power of the new Republic to the eastern part of the island.

The east was governed by Kerverseau, from the city of Santo Domingo and with a French force of 600 men; in Montecristi, protecting the passage to Santiago, was General Louis Ferrand, commanding 400 soldiers. Those 1,000 men would had been easily eliminated by the victorious Haitians. But they [the Haitians] didn't moved eastward. That's the situation in which the island of La Española found itself a the beginning of 1804, divided between the Republic of Haití and the French colony of Santo Domingo."

-Pg. 175-176, Composición Social Dominicana by Juan Bosch

On another note, the priest was referring to the 1822-1844 invasion, not to many of the other invasions and invasion attempts before and after those years!

Lets not forget that José Núñez de Cáceres declaration of independence on December of 1821, was not against France, but against Spain! The eastern part reverted back to Spain and remained a Spanish colony until December of 1821. In 1822, the Haitians, having known they had a Spanish colony as a neighbor, militarily invaded the eastern part once the Spanish military soldiers had departed, knowing very well that the new government was still in the process of forming itself and there was not official military to defend the eastern part. This was not contemplated by Cáceres et al. Had the colony never declared its independence from Spain, the Haitians would had remained exactly where they belong.

And lastly, I don't know why should it matter what the US or people in the US would be willing to do or not, this issue doesn't encompasses the US or its people. Never has and never will. However, and this is probably not surprising to many here, but I find it inherently DISGUSTING how some here want to minimize the disastrous effects Haitian incursions on the eastern side had for the development of the DR. Its DISGUSTING how some here dare, at every chance they got, try to justify the crimes the Haitians committed on the Dominican people and have, to this day, not shown the slightest desire of remorse.

The United States government did passed the Native American Apology Resolution, because that was the right thing to do!

The United States House of Representatives approved a resolution apologizing to African-Americans for slavery and the era of the Jim Crow.

The government of the Dominican government even apologized to the Haitians with reparations, for the massacre of a few thousand Haitians in 1937.

Why should Haiti not apologize for what they effectively did and heavily affected the development of the DR for over a century afterwards?

DISGUSTING!

07-20-2012, 08:46 PM	#18
Mifsnavassy Join Date Oct 2005 Posts 577 Senior Member	I agree with the poster who suggested that the guy was trying in a really blatant manner to earn points. The period from 1795 to 1809 or even 1815 is a shambles on this island. Detailed accounts seem to indicate that in 1804, the new Republic of Haiti did have a claim to the eastern part of the island, since the French owned the whole island. However, given internal issues in Haiti and the fact that a Frenchman named Ferrand had established some "French" control over what was known as Santo Domingo, it would appear that they were not interested or were not capable of establishing their claim. When Sánchez Ramírez defeated Ferrand in the Battle of Palo Hincado in 1808 (?) and eventually took the city of Santo Domingo in a convoluted series of events, I am always wondering if he raised the Spanish flag? I frankly do not know, but I suppose that is what he did. Spain, apparently responded with some support, although "on the books" the whole island still belonged to??? and here is where it gets interesting: France because she had not recognized the rebels in Haiti as a nation? Or Spain because she was supporting Sánchez Ramírez? Or Haiti because they had conquered the French, declared their independence and therefore "owned" everything that the French had "owned" before the revolution. Pick one, they are all valid to some degree. So have a good day, be well, say hello to your friends, have a cold one, a wet one, and be nice. HB "That war [Haitian Revolution] didn't spilled into Dominican territory. Dessalines and military officers didn't had the vision of Toussaint. If Toussaint would had been alive, he would had imposed the extension of the independence operations to the eastern part of the island, which also were French territory and where the French military forces were located. But despite the occupation of 1801, the chiefs of the war of 1803 didn't managed to understand the doctrine of Toussaint, for whom the island was one and indivisible. As such, Dessalines and his military officers declared on the 1st of January, 1804 the establishment of the Republic of Haití, but didn't extended the power of the new Republic to the eastern part of the island. The east was governed by Kerverseau, from the city of Santo Domingo and with a French force of 600 men; in Montecristi, protecting the passage to Santiago, was General Louis Ferrand, commanding 400 soldiers. Those 1,000 men would had been easily eliminated by the victorious Haitians. But they [the Haitians] didn't moved eastward. That's the situation in which the island of La Española found itself a the beginning of 1804, divided between the Republic of Haití and the French colony of Santo Domingo." -Pg. 175-176, Composición Social Dominicana by Juan Bosch On another note, the priest was referring to the 1822-1844 invasion, not to many of the other invasions and invasion attempts before and after those years! Lets not forget that José Núñez de Cáceres declaration of independence on December of 1821, was not against France, but against Spain! The eastern part reverted back to Spain and remained a Spanish colony until December of 1821. In 1822, the Haitians, having known they had a Spanish colony as a neighbor, militarily invaded the eastern part once the Spanish military soldiers had departed, knowing very well that the new government was still in the process of forming itself and there was not official military to defend the eastern part. This was not contemplated by Cáceres et al. Had the colony never declared its independence from Spain, the Haitians would had remained exactly where they belong. And lastly, I don't know why should it matter what the US or people in the US would be willing to do or not, this issue doesn't encompasses the US or its people. Never has and never will. However, and this is probably not surprising to many here, but I find it inherently DISGUSTING how some here want to minimize the disastrous effects Haitian incursions on the eastern side had for the development of the DR. Its DISGUSTING how some here dare, at every chance they got, try to justify the crimes the Haitians committed on the Dominican people and have, to this day, not shown the slightest desire of remorse. The United States government did passed the Native American Apology Resolution, because that was the right thing to do! The United States House of Representatives approved a resolution apologizing to African-Americans for slavery and the era of the Jim Crow. The government of the Dominican government even apologized to the Haitians with reparations, for the massacre of a few thousand Haitians in 1937. Why should Haiti not apologize for what they effectively did and heavily affected the development of the DR for over a century afterwards? DISGUSTING!
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