[Longwow]

this has been a question on my mind recently and just popped up after seeing a similar question.

i have not been able to find the answer of absolutely knowing ...keword: absolutely knowing that we have free will. i have contemplated this for a huge amount of time and this is one of the most important questions i have ever even thought of.

you are right, it is a most important and essential philosophical question, particulary in regards to christian theology where it has been considered a real pain-in-the-backside's gordian knot for mileniums.

when one asks the average person what the term, freewill, actually means --and what that implies -- they usually get a impatient look on their faces and declare something on the order of this: "well, i'm not quite sure how best to describe it, but i know for sure as heck that i've got it!" then they follow this up with a triumphant smile while waving their arms freely to and fro to demonstate their point.:d

in christian theology the fuss is over man's fallen relationship with god. question: "can man -- by using his freewill power of choice -- choose god and salvation?...or does one have to depend on the influx of the holy spirit to overpower his sinful nature and enmity with god in order to effect the change? doctrinely speaking, on one side you have the "feewill" theologians known as "arminians" and on the other side are the pre-determinists, known as "calvinists". needless to say, believers have been burned at the stake over this very question.

part of this squabble is fueled because of the orthodox conception of god and his creation...(that's usuns ) the general view is that the cosmos was created out of nothing (a miraculous creation ex nilhilo ) therefore there is an absolute gulf seperating the creator from his creation. this is a theistic view of god with the divine creator held as transcedent to his alien creation.

however the above concept is not true according to the loo religious philosophy. with "all is one" comes a different view of things as per "the divine cosmos" in this case there is only an apparent but not real gulf between the one creator and its creation simply because god is the cosmos. obviously the one creator is immanent.with itself (if that was all to it this belief would be describably as pantheism. but -- and this is most important -- though god is the cosmos the cosmos is not god. the concept of panentheism covers both grounds by holding that the one creator is greater than the mere sum of the cosmic parts. the higher doctrine would be that god is both immanent and transcendent.

so instead of being mere alien puppet things created out of nothing...we are created out of the very being of god. 'god with us' suddenly takes on a different twist!

wow! everthing changes!...the old idea of "sin" (i.e., rebellion against god) has got to be redacted, it just doesn't apply in the original feudal sense of rebelling serf's breaking laws laid down by the king in the castle and thus due for proper punishment.

so -- considering the above -- what is and what isn't freewill?

first of all we must put "choices" in the right perspective. our choices are an effect not a cause. the actual cause of our actions originates within our nature. the so-called freedom of the will -- as self-determination -- merely describes that mental/spiritual condition which is the abiding inclination of the permanent spiritual self. the subjective energy of the human will is all that a man can call his own and be responsible for.

freedom of will is not the same as freedom of action, or being dependant upon having a vast variety of choice options presented to us. our freedom of will is internal and not dependent on making or not making choices. being put into prison is a violation of our personal freedom but not directly that of our free will. now to be "brainwashed" would be a violation. being given certain information that would force itself onto our thinking in a manner to radically change it would be a violation of will -- even if the person asked for such...and that is what the ra studiously attempted to avoid. on the other hand withholding information would not be a violation (oft times i would wish my info bank would be violated...in the right direction of course but short cuts to spiritual growth don't help but rather detour our spiritual adventure)

having free will doesn't mean we can accomplish things outside of our proper sphere of activity. i cannot by an act of will immediately change certain emotions or circumstances... such as deciding to repent and love god with all my heart and mind...to painlessly will away the consequences of a habit which was started by a simple and careless act of will such as smoking... or more dramatically final, jumping off a towering cliff.

somewhere in the dc archives resides a posting i did a couple of years ago where i copied a list of positive definitions of finite freedom, plus several negative definitions, with the benevolent idea that it could serve as an ongoing reference aid. i can't find it. i feel my will is being violated...not my free will...just my everyday ordinary will.

if the above doesn't resonate, just delete.

best. bbbb