[baxodrom]

i wonder if the greys (or the stock of human survivors) who have allegedly returned from the future in order to alter timelines are still inhabited by the same souls they began with, circa the post 2012 era.

that's what my friend says. she says it was far too late when they realized that they were doomed. that's why i raised the question about permanent separation. perhaps they permanently separated themselves from the creator? i mean, if they wished to, wouldn't the creator honor that wish? and, since the journey back to the creator inherently carries with it a great measure of personal responsibility, would not a being's intense desire not to be responsible for its own existence and evolution in itself constitute a journey away from the creator?

i would feel this likely - a race which is suffering genetic deterioration and increased distortion of its physical pattern will nevertheless degenerate to the point where it no longer is able to express a third density lifewave. and if they really don't want to take the responsibility necessary to graduate to 4th density, mightn't they get that wish? as in, their existence would either cease or they would be marooned in an isolated existence. perhaps there is a point in the future where the 3d souls involved are no longer able to incarnate in these bodies, and are aided by confederation volunteers, in a similar way that the soul-group of maldek was aided, according to ra. yes, but their planet was destroyed by their "bellicose" actions. they probably got crazy with the nukes. they aren't yet fully-enabled 3rd density beings! those are some serious consequences!

orion group forces may then more completely 'own' these now 'useless for 3d evolution' bodies, clone them, and effectively make cyborg-like slaves out of them. these 'soulless' beings may be effectively no more alive than a corpse which is made to sit up and gesticulate with the application of electricity, a common parlor trick of the 19th century. but then where would the mind come from? they would have to have some kind of mind, either a hive-mind or an individual one. (the benevolent greys from z. reticuli might have this?) other accounts tell of the practice of 'greys' being grown from 1st trimester human foetuses, grown to term without sexual maturity or full development of the body, thus explaining the similarity of the classic grey to a 3 month foetus. as strange as that sounds, it makes some sense.
therefore, there may be differing categories of being referred to as 'greys'. of those who manifest here, there may be those degenerated but still human, as well as an even more future-distant version, no longer alive in the sense of harboring third density beings, but perhaps something more like a hive-minded, insect like consciousness, like star trek's 'borg', controlled by a queen, perhaps a 4th or 5th density sts being. well, a hive-mind sounds like a "social memory complex" to me. i don't know if that sort of thing would be so much a function of negativity or simply a different way for like beings to relate to one another. but with the "queen" aspect, that surely sounds specific to sts. i would only add a hierarchy to make it complete, a la 21st century majority human society.
just idle conjecture, all this. yeah but i love conjecturing. sometimes things when i just start brainstorming. if these humans survive in underground bunkers, such as are said to be able to hold hundreds of thousands in norway, for example, many people taken inside will be just ordinary folk, trying to protect their families, and not necessarily sts do you really think that the powerful and rich will let that happen? i mean, they are their bunkers, after all - although they all perhaps make a conscious decision to 'separate' from everyone left above. the story being pieced together and told by dw is emerging as a story of monumental tragedy. as for being doomed, all that is doomed is the ability of that group of bodies (marooned apart from genetic succour) to continue to reproduce as human bodies. the souls themselves shall carry on, with renewed opportunity for continued growth. what guarantee do we have of that? what about the cursory statements ra made back in '81 about the necessity of helpers to help souls not become "misplaced" or "permanently separated"? i am not trying to be belligerent, i am asking this with all sincerity. it's almost like there is this gaping pit that it is possible for souls to fall into, and the only thing that's said is, "oh, by the way, there is a bottomless pit to the right side when you die, but don't worry, almost no one ever falls in there. in fact, we post sentries to keep this from happening." it makes me a bit uneasy, not to mention shaking my confidence in the creator's competence. (forgive me, but i come from a very strong christian background, and gave it up after being totally disappointed in that god many, many times.)
the story of the surviving humans is one of great experience of perceived separation, to be sure. it seems touching that after @ forty millennia in the wilderness, they should finally return here, in search of a solution to their 'separateness'. kind of ironic, and it make one think of what lessons have been learned, karmically. i guess whatever lessons can be learned by those who refuse to take responsibility for themselves. it's mind-boggling - the lengths life will go to in order to help people awaken from the illusion of separation. all this had to happen due to the practice of separation. mark sometimes i am just so tired of the game. yet i am compelled to play. it seems as though i am programmed to. it doesn't seem like free will sometimes.

thanks for your responses. i really need to hash this out once and for all. (even though i had a vision 19-20 yrs ago in which a disembodied voice told me, while i was watching portions of the creator leave and come back (this happened very quickly in that time-reference) , "don't be afraid, we don't lose anyone doing this. we have never lost anyone. each one is far too precious for us to risk it."

s