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**tpJKhY8Z** · 03-05-2011, 09:53 AM

I would qualify it as 'the observer', or the perceiver. I just consider it the part of me that observes, the point of view.
In QM it would be that which measures. As controversial as it is, I'll take Dr. F.A. Wolf's description of it. (because I like it. )

Thanks CFTraveler...

I will however having hard time to accept the idea of "soul" or "observer" being the traveler in OBE.
The article you referred to me doesn't make sense (maybe I should read his full theory) but in this article he failed to explain what is the reflected vibration(soul) and how this reflection occurs, and refers to something called 'vibration' wilthout adequately explaning it. I guess somehow he tocuhes string theory but I didn't get his connections.

So in your model, the observer expands in to other states and later the 'accessed information' is downloaded into brain and the brain interprets the new data and give it a meaning by senses - like smell, touch, hear etc.

See this is actually interesting but let me turn this upside down. I always struggle with the concept of "observer" as mentioned in copenhagen school of thought. This is still a theory and I will tell you another alternative. It is called environmental reduction. See, according to copenhagen thought, the moon is not there if nobody is looking at it. Environmental reduction as suggested by Penrose argues that quantum states collapse as soon as it interacts with environment (already collapsed states). So the quantum collapse doesn't require a consciouss observer but only an adequate interaction with the environment.
So the moon is always there even nobody is looking at it.

Hameroff, takes it a step further and model this to explain consciousness. His theory, in a nutshell, argues that within Microtubilins (within neurons) there are sensors that interact with quantum information ( 1 and 0 being at the same time). When this quantum information interacts with the classical information (1 or 0) that is collected from our everyday environment by our sensory organs, making the quantum information collapse into 0 or 1 and this interaction creates the feeling of "awareness". So there is no observer in this model. Two different types of information (quantum and classical) meeting with each other and creating a consciouss experience. Consciousness is not continious and it happens 1/8 of a second.

This model to me, and for many others, is the most successful theory so far - although has recieved a lot of critism but not been able to proven wrong yet.

So how OBE occurs in this model?

Well, first of all, there is no expansion of observer or consciousness. Because there is no observer. When you have OBE, you basically tunning your brain into different frequencies and this experience allow microtubilins to collect different states of quantum information (so the tibulins as the reciever just tuned into different channels and starts gathering quantum information at different frequencies). And once the brain tuned into its regular frequency (I mean when we wake up from OBE), all downloaded quantum information during OBE clashes with the classical information (there is no observer) and we give a meaning to our OBE experience.

See, these two theories look a like but they are fundamentally different. One depends on "the observer" and the other depends on "the observed - the quantum information @ other frequencies"...

Sorry for the length of the message...but I had to let this out. Hope someone here debunk my model because I hate the idea that there is no "observer"

03-05-2011, 09:53 AM	#45
tpJKhY8Z Join Date Oct 2005 Posts 514 Senior Member	I would qualify it as 'the observer', or the perceiver. I just consider it the part of me that observes, the point of view. In QM it would be that which measures. As controversial as it is, I'll take Dr. F.A. Wolf's description of it. (because I like it. ) Thanks CFTraveler... I will however having hard time to accept the idea of "soul" or "observer" being the traveler in OBE. The article you referred to me doesn't make sense (maybe I should read his full theory) but in this article he failed to explain what is the reflected vibration(soul) and how this reflection occurs, and refers to something called 'vibration' wilthout adequately explaning it. I guess somehow he tocuhes string theory but I didn't get his connections. So in your model, the observer expands in to other states and later the 'accessed information' is downloaded into brain and the brain interprets the new data and give it a meaning by senses - like smell, touch, hear etc. See this is actually interesting but let me turn this upside down. I always struggle with the concept of "observer" as mentioned in copenhagen school of thought. This is still a theory and I will tell you another alternative. It is called environmental reduction. See, according to copenhagen thought, the moon is not there if nobody is looking at it. Environmental reduction as suggested by Penrose argues that quantum states collapse as soon as it interacts with environment (already collapsed states). So the quantum collapse doesn't require a consciouss observer but only an adequate interaction with the environment. So the moon is always there even nobody is looking at it. Hameroff, takes it a step further and model this to explain consciousness. His theory, in a nutshell, argues that within Microtubilins (within neurons) there are sensors that interact with quantum information ( 1 and 0 being at the same time). When this quantum information interacts with the classical information (1 or 0) that is collected from our everyday environment by our sensory organs, making the quantum information collapse into 0 or 1 and this interaction creates the feeling of "awareness". So there is no observer in this model. Two different types of information (quantum and classical) meeting with each other and creating a consciouss experience. Consciousness is not continious and it happens 1/8 of a second. This model to me, and for many others, is the most successful theory so far - although has recieved a lot of critism but not been able to proven wrong yet. So how OBE occurs in this model? Well, first of all, there is no expansion of observer or consciousness. Because there is no observer. When you have OBE, you basically tunning your brain into different frequencies and this experience allow microtubilins to collect different states of quantum information (so the tibulins as the reciever just tuned into different channels and starts gathering quantum information at different frequencies). And once the brain tuned into its regular frequency (I mean when we wake up from OBE), all downloaded quantum information during OBE clashes with the classical information (there is no observer) and we give a meaning to our OBE experience. See, these two theories look a like but they are fundamentally different. One depends on "the observer" and the other depends on "the observed - the quantum information @ other frequencies"... Sorry for the length of the message...but I had to let this out. Hope someone here debunk my model because I hate the idea that there is no "observer"
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