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Old 07-25-2007, 06:05 AM   #21
Xxmlqevq

Join Date
Oct 2005
Posts
393
Senior Member
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Uh oh, CF stepped it up a notch! Dang, I didn't realize you were such a pool of knowledge...wait, yes i did. Haha

A lot of your argument was confusing...not to say it wasn't brilliantly written, which it was, I just had a hard time understanding it because of its complexity! So I am going to respond to it as best I can, and pray that I don't accidentally end up reinforcing your argument.

Ha ha. Most psychological theorists used to believe indeed that the dreamstate only consists of expected (or previously recorded) stimuli, until they discovered that some dreams had information the subjects couldn't have known unless they received the information from a nonlocal (for want of a better term) source. Then they started using the word 'confabulation' which means that with what we know, our brains can invent stuff we haven't done yet. So there goes that theory. Not necessarily so! We are quite capable of doing things in our dreams that we have never experienced! It's all a matter of how much of "reality" you have experienced, and your subconscious remembers. So you see it's quite different from person to person. I have never jumped in the air and started flying before, yet I am able to do this with a degree of realism, simply because of other schemata supporting my environment. Common sense tells me that the further i soar into the air, the smaller the ground will get, because i'll be further away from it, similar to watching a house disappear slowly in a rearview mirror of a car. I will also see the clouds and the sky getting closer to me. I will feel the wind blowing against me. It's an entirely realistic and believable experience, and how? Because my brain is putting together all the past experiences I have had to PREDICT the outcome of a new experience that I have never experienced!

How magnificent the functions of the brain!! I get very excited when talking about the wonders of the mind, sorry. Haha. You see, during an OBE, you are supposedly capable of receiving information that is not generated by your own mind, which means it is actually happening, and your mind creates a visual which is a form of interpretation, ie senses, so that you understand what is happening. Given that information, who's to say that OBEs aren't just lucid dreams in which there is heavy telepathic activity? That would explain out of body validations, and it would be consistent with the concept of having stimuli that respond to external events, and take on the form of vision or even physical sound!!! It's mind blowing! So get a load of this...

You could write a sentence on a sheet of paper, ask me to project RTZ and read it. So you go and AP to the RTZ (sounds like a rap song doesn't it? LOL) or you could WILD, go into the room where the paper is supposed to be, read it, wake up, and report what you saw. OBEers claim to have the ability to project their CONSCIOUSNESS ...OUT OF THEIR BODY.......READ a sheet of paper....and RETURN to their body, and give an accurate account of what happened! Now, keeping in mind that I SUPPORT the idea that OBEs exist, that sounds COMPLETELY unrealistic, especially given the fact that I could argue that the entire experience was a lucid dream, with added TELEPATHIC internal/external stimuli.

In other words, I have a lucid dream. I can decide to be in my house. Go to the room where the paper is, read it, report back, and be correct. How? Telepathy. Then one could argue, "well if you're telepathic, why can't you just 'know' what the paper said?" Well that's simple. Many people's minds are unable to simply "know" things, so their mind uses the dreamstate to create a "reason", if you will to know the desired knowledge. It's interpretational perception! Just as lucid dreams are all in the head, I argue that an OBE is nothing more than a METHOD for the brain to attain information without going crazy because it can't justify how it attained this knowledge!!!!!
If I just confused the hell out of everyone, feel free to ask me what I just said! It can be confusing I know, and I'm not entirely good at explaining things. But I think I'm on to something with this.

Your move CF!
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