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**nerohedfrs** · 09-16-2006, 05:28 AM

We have people looking outwards (our scientists) and have people looking inwards (our mystics, spiritualists and visionaries). That's a good balance in my opinion. Everything will eventually meet in the middle - or near to. One of major world problems at present is the separation of areas of investigation. This leads to eltism, opposition and ultimately power struggles between the opposing areas. E.g. Neuroscience screaming "it's just a chemical reaction" to pyshcologists who are screaming back "No! It's how you were brought-up and how big your daddies winkle was!" And then we spiritualists nodding our heads and whispering "ah! But no...this is all an illusion...we must reach for our higher selves."

Regards spiritualism or mysticism (considering that's we're involved with here) many people will follow many differing branches of the fundamental idea. Some may profess the astral to be the way, some simply meditation. Others may exclaim that practical altriusm is the way forward. personally I believe all these to be sound. I even think opposition is healthy because it drives people to seek further justification for the cause (although it may sometimes result in fraud or hysteria and death).

Regards the astral - I sincerely believe in the phenomenon otherwise I wouldn't be here atall. I get frustrated that I can't achieve OBE (I've been trying for 9 years on and off). If someone could project to my house (I'd give maps, house name, number, directions, aerial shots, everything) and tell me about a single room in my house and get it right then I'd happily dedicate the remainder of my life (full-time) to achieving projection. But noone has offered to do this yet. Why? Because there's a curious get-out clause! It's a get-out clause I read in Astral Dynamics. Robert says that although you can project to someone's house in the rtz it may not appear as it truly does in the physical world. For me this gets the old alarm bells ringing (call it natural defence) I know that there have been a rare few verifications made in the past (or claimed to have been made) but I'm still waiting on an astral traveller to come and blow my mind and lead me by the hand into a new era of personal development.

Any takers??

Gee, where to start? I can tell you that an astral projection is like a dream- when you dream you are interpreting the symbolism that your subconscious is showing you as it doesn't communicate verbally, and when you do an rtz projection you are looking at an energetic equivalent which is probably non-local or nontemporal of what is materially (objectively?) there, so you are actually 'seeing' your own interpretation of what may not be there (read nonlocal) or will be there or was there (read nontemporal) so it's really a subjective experience, but you have already heard this before.
All I can tell you is that I've projected like a 'cajillion' (that's gazillion in metric)

times and have been substantiated only three times in my 49 years of age (yes, I'm old) so that says a lot about the predictability of the event.
But what disturbs me about your post is that you haven't projected yet? For real? You mean a full-on OBE experience, or not even a phasing projection? That disturbs me- we have to do something about that.

09-16-2006, 05:28 AM	#22
nerohedfrs Join Date Oct 2005 Posts 563 Senior Member	We have people looking outwards (our scientists) and have people looking inwards (our mystics, spiritualists and visionaries). That's a good balance in my opinion. Everything will eventually meet in the middle - or near to. One of major world problems at present is the separation of areas of investigation. This leads to eltism, opposition and ultimately power struggles between the opposing areas. E.g. Neuroscience screaming "it's just a chemical reaction" to pyshcologists who are screaming back "No! It's how you were brought-up and how big your daddies winkle was!" And then we spiritualists nodding our heads and whispering "ah! But no...this is all an illusion...we must reach for our higher selves." Regards spiritualism or mysticism (considering that's we're involved with here) many people will follow many differing branches of the fundamental idea. Some may profess the astral to be the way, some simply meditation. Others may exclaim that practical altriusm is the way forward. personally I believe all these to be sound. I even think opposition is healthy because it drives people to seek further justification for the cause (although it may sometimes result in fraud or hysteria and death). Regards the astral - I sincerely believe in the phenomenon otherwise I wouldn't be here atall. I get frustrated that I can't achieve OBE (I've been trying for 9 years on and off). If someone could project to my house (I'd give maps, house name, number, directions, aerial shots, everything) and tell me about a single room in my house and get it right then I'd happily dedicate the remainder of my life (full-time) to achieving projection. But noone has offered to do this yet. Why? Because there's a curious get-out clause! It's a get-out clause I read in Astral Dynamics. Robert says that although you can project to someone's house in the rtz it may not appear as it truly does in the physical world. For me this gets the old alarm bells ringing (call it natural defence) I know that there have been a rare few verifications made in the past (or claimed to have been made) but I'm still waiting on an astral traveller to come and blow my mind and lead me by the hand into a new era of personal development. Any takers?? Gee, where to start? I can tell you that an astral projection is like a dream- when you dream you are interpreting the symbolism that your subconscious is showing you as it doesn't communicate verbally, and when you do an rtz projection you are looking at an energetic equivalent which is probably non-local or nontemporal of what is materially (objectively?) there, so you are actually 'seeing' your own interpretation of what may not be there (read nonlocal) or will be there or was there (read nontemporal) so it's really a subjective experience, but you have already heard this before. All I can tell you is that I've projected like a 'cajillion' (that's gazillion in metric) times and have been substantiated only three times in my 49 years of age (yes, I'm old) so that says a lot about the predictability of the event. But what disturbs me about your post is that you haven't projected yet? For real? You mean a full-on OBE experience, or not even a phasing projection? That disturbs me- we have to do something about that.
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