DiscussWorldIssues - Socio-Economic Religion and Political Uncensored Debate - View Single Post - Who is the most hated in sports right now?

**zatronanec** · 11-09-2005, 03:47 AM

John McGraw cheated.
Willy Keeler cheated.
Ty Cobb cheated.
Gaylord Perry cheated.

Hell, I'll bet more people than not have "cheated" at some point in their baseball careers.

In MOST cases, it shouldn't be grounds for banishment from the Hall. In Raffy's case, I don't see that it should.

In Rose's case, I can see why he shouldn't be allowed back.

Most of the people that cheated, did so to try to win.

In Rose's case, it can be concluded that some of the things he did were detrimental to his team's chances of winning on certain days.

I'm not saying juicing, corking bats, grabbing players as they round third base (McGraw, I'm looking at you) sharpening your cleats to razor sharp spikes (Cobb, you're an asshole!) are ok. But at least they weren't burning their bullpens to win on tuesday because they bet on that game, and fuck the team over for Wednesday.

Great post. I've tried to make this point a number of times on the Phils board but have never done it as clearly as you just did Whiskey. Palmiero broke the rules to make himself better and, arguably, make his team better -- a very strong argument could be made that Palmiero "cheated" because he wanted to win so badly, which is partly selfish but also partly what we want all of these athletes to do (i.e., sacrifice themselves for the good of the team and the fans that want to see the team win). Rose broke the rules simply for his own benefit...because baseball games weren't interesting enough if he just had the dream job of being a player / manager, he also had to have money riding on them. Very different, imo.

11-09-2005, 03:47 AM	#21
zatronanec Join Date Oct 2005 Posts 436 Senior Member	John McGraw cheated. Willy Keeler cheated. Ty Cobb cheated. Gaylord Perry cheated. Hell, I'll bet more people than not have "cheated" at some point in their baseball careers. In MOST cases, it shouldn't be grounds for banishment from the Hall. In Raffy's case, I don't see that it should. In Rose's case, I can see why he shouldn't be allowed back. Most of the people that cheated, did so to try to win. In Rose's case, it can be concluded that some of the things he did were detrimental to his team's chances of winning on certain days. I'm not saying juicing, corking bats, grabbing players as they round third base (McGraw, I'm looking at you) sharpening your cleats to razor sharp spikes (Cobb, you're an asshole!) are ok. But at least they weren't burning their bullpens to win on tuesday because they bet on that game, and fuck the team over for Wednesday. Great post. I've tried to make this point a number of times on the Phils board but have never done it as clearly as you just did Whiskey. Palmiero broke the rules to make himself better and, arguably, make his team better -- a very strong argument could be made that Palmiero "cheated" because he wanted to win so badly, which is partly selfish but also partly what we want all of these athletes to do (i.e., sacrifice themselves for the good of the team and the fans that want to see the team win). Rose broke the rules simply for his own benefit...because baseball games weren't interesting enough if he just had the dream job of being a player / manager, he also had to have money riding on them. Very different, imo.
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