DiscussWorldIssues - Socio-Economic Religion and Political Uncensored Debate - View Single Post

**GetsTan** · 06-07-2011, 03:12 AM

It depends a lot on surface. For example, when we take South-Estonian rally in 2010
RALLI » VÃµistlused » Tulemused
Tänak had Subaru with latest improvements (without R4 kit of course, but with bigger restrictor)
He was fastest GrN car
Gardemeister was second 83 sec behind and
Prokop was further behind but without his time penalty he was around 70 sec behind
They covered around 185 km, so he was around 0.38-0.4 sec per km faster (he didn't had to push the last, because he didn't had to). Rally is fast and Subaru with its high speed had an advantage.
Another factor is that I think Tänak was running with BFgoodrich and the others with Pirelli control tires, but I am not sure (Tire company was not visible in Prokop car). Maybe some home rally effect as well (Prokop was also not first timer in South-Estonia).

Two weeks later, Tänak with Mistu and Toni and Prokop with Ford in Finland.
Fastest was Toni, Prokop around 55 sec behind and Tänak around 95 sec behind during the first 13 stages (approximately 190 km) and at the beginning they all pushed very hard. So, now Tänak was 0.5 sec slower than Toni (now Toni had home effect). Yes, this time he had heavier Pirelli car with control tires bust still the difference in two rallies is around 0.9 sec/km between the same two drivers. I do not think it is all down to tires and some extra weight only.

So, a bit softer and sandier surface with some more straights in S-E was more suitable to traditional GrN car than S2000 car. You can also see that Kaur started under supreally on Sunday and he was also faster than Prokop and Gardemeister.
So, if you add R4 kit to those cars, then I think they might be very, very competitive on such a surface, compared to S2000 cars.

I'm skeptic about comparison based on one or two events and different drivers with different tyres, moreover one local and one newcomer. For me that says nothing about the car

I can fabricate really nice comparisons similar to this one. One very nice is Tlustak and his performance against Cetinkaya :-D In Barum Tlustak was with Fabia and Burcu with Peugeot. She was 3-5 s/km slower without punctures. Now in Turkey both had same Puntos and constantly same (slow) times. So my conclusion is that Fabia is 3-5 s/km faster than 207, right?

It's extreme example but I hope it shows what I mean. There is way too much unknowns in such comparison. You would have to compare those drivers in different cars and tyres for many many events before You could statistically make some valid conclusion.

06-07-2011, 03:12 AM	#40
GetsTan Join Date Oct 2005 Posts 691 Senior Member	It depends a lot on surface. For example, when we take South-Estonian rally in 2010 RALLI » VÃµistlused » Tulemused Tänak had Subaru with latest improvements (without R4 kit of course, but with bigger restrictor) He was fastest GrN car Gardemeister was second 83 sec behind and Prokop was further behind but without his time penalty he was around 70 sec behind They covered around 185 km, so he was around 0.38-0.4 sec per km faster (he didn't had to push the last, because he didn't had to). Rally is fast and Subaru with its high speed had an advantage. Another factor is that I think Tänak was running with BFgoodrich and the others with Pirelli control tires, but I am not sure (Tire company was not visible in Prokop car). Maybe some home rally effect as well (Prokop was also not first timer in South-Estonia). Two weeks later, Tänak with Mistu and Toni and Prokop with Ford in Finland. Fastest was Toni, Prokop around 55 sec behind and Tänak around 95 sec behind during the first 13 stages (approximately 190 km) and at the beginning they all pushed very hard. So, now Tänak was 0.5 sec slower than Toni (now Toni had home effect). Yes, this time he had heavier Pirelli car with control tires bust still the difference in two rallies is around 0.9 sec/km between the same two drivers. I do not think it is all down to tires and some extra weight only. So, a bit softer and sandier surface with some more straights in S-E was more suitable to traditional GrN car than S2000 car. You can also see that Kaur started under supreally on Sunday and he was also faster than Prokop and Gardemeister. So, if you add R4 kit to those cars, then I think they might be very, very competitive on such a surface, compared to S2000 cars. I'm skeptic about comparison based on one or two events and different drivers with different tyres, moreover one local and one newcomer. For me that says nothing about the car I can fabricate really nice comparisons similar to this one. One very nice is Tlustak and his performance against Cetinkaya :-D In Barum Tlustak was with Fabia and Burcu with Peugeot. She was 3-5 s/km slower without punctures. Now in Turkey both had same Puntos and constantly same (slow) times. So my conclusion is that Fabia is 3-5 s/km faster than 207, right? It's extreme example but I hope it shows what I mean. There is way too much unknowns in such comparison. You would have to compare those drivers in different cars and tyres for many many events before You could statistically make some valid conclusion.
	Quote