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**gkruCRi1** · 01-15-2007, 04:50 AM

So after months and months of campaigning on fiscal responsiblity and transparency the Senate Democrats made themselves out to be complete hypocrates this week. After the House passed a strong and sweeping bill that would give the American people disclosure to Congressional earmarks, the Democratic Leadership in the Senate was apparently against allowing us all to see how much of our money they waste on pork barrel spending in the name of their own reelection aspirations. When Republican Senator Jim DeMint offered an amendment to toughen the much weaker Senate bill and match it to the full strength of the passed House bill Reid and Durbin had a fit and tried to squash the amendment my tabling it. Much to their surprise, their effort embarrassingly failed. This is but a piece of the article. There is much more to read in the link.

Someone should ask Reid why he was lying to the American people for the past year as he and his party were out trumpeting fiscal reform and transparency. We should also be asking why Reid, Durbin, and the majority of Senate Democrats are against the American people being allowed to know where our tax dollars are going?

From what I am reading, saying it is 'Senate Dems' who are doing this is inaccurate. The Senate has 100 members, and 50 are Dems, one socialist from Vermont will caucus with them, and 49 are Reps. The article states that 9 Dems are in the opposition. The vote was 51-46. This means a rake of Reps are in the opposition too, and by no means all Dems are in the opposition.

What this boils down to, IMO, is that some from both parties are favouring the reform at issue, whilst some are not. This doesn't surprise me because neither party did this kind of reform before today anyway, and I'm surprised that so many have gone as far as they have to date on other reforms and come as close as they have on additional ones like this to date. Certainly the Reps could have done this reform up to this fall, and the Dems could have likewise done so when they controlled earlier. Moreover, Senators tend to be the far more entrenched club than the House in deal making with the House, something good in some respects like partisan bills but bad when it comes to self-serving, earmarks, cigar room deals and antics, etc.

Inasmuch as it is likely a pipe-dream although it shouldn't be if the public could rally around them, some good proposed amendment material would be something like those added to the Pennsylvania Constitution during a constitutional convention called by the people (since politicians don't like putting handcuffs on themselves) during the 1870s about how bills must be passed in their efforts to stop shenanigans in legislating.

Article III

LEGISLATION

A. Procedure

Passage of Laws

Section 1.
No law shall be passed except by bill, and no bill shall be so altered or amended, on its passage through either House, as to change its original purpose.

Reference to Committee; Printing

Section 2.
No bill shall be considered unless referred to a committee, printed for the use of the members and returned therefrom.

Form of Bills

Section 3.
No bill shall be passed containing more than one subject, which shall be clearly expressed in its title, except a general appropriation bill or a bill codifying or compiling the law or a part thereof.

Consideration of Bills

Section 4.
Every bill shall be considered on three different days in each House. All amendments made thereto shall be printed for the use of the members before the final vote is taken on the bill and before the final vote is taken, upon written request addressed to the presiding officer of either House by at least twenty-five percent of the members elected to that House, any bill shall be read at length in that House. No bill shall become a law, unless on its final passage the vote is taken by yeas and nays, the names of the persons voting for and against it are entered on the journal, and a majority of the members elected to each House is recorded thereon as voting in its favor.

Concurring in Amendments; Conference Committee Reports

Section 5.
No amendment to bills by one House shall be concurred in by the other, except by the vote of a majority of the members elected thereto, taken by yeas and nays, and the names of those voting recorded upon the journals.

Revival and Amendment of Laws

Section 6.
No law shall be revived, amended, or the provisions thereof extended or conferred, by reference to its title only, but so much thereof as is revived, amended, extended or conferred shall be re-enacted and published at length.

Notice of Local and Special Bills

Section 7.
No local or special bill shall be passed unless notice of the intention to apply therefor shall have been published in the locality where the matter or the thing to be effected may be situated, which notice shall be at least thirty days prior to the introduction into the General Assembly of such bill and in the manner to be provided by law; the evidence of such notice having been published, shall be exhibited in the General Assembly, before such act shall be passed.

Signing of Bills

Section 8.
The presiding officer of each House shall, in the presence of the House over which he presides, sign all bills and joint resolutions passed by the General Assembly, after their titles have been publicly read immediately before signing; and the fact of signing shall be entered on the journal.

Action on Concurrent Orders and Resolutions

Section 9.
Every order, resolution or vote, to which the concurrence of both Houses may be necessary, except on the question of adjournment, shall be presented to the Governor and before it shall take effect be approved by him, or being disapproved, shall be repassed by two-thirds of both Houses according to the rules and limitations prescribed in case of a bill.

Revenue Bills

Section 10.
All bills for raising revenue shall originate in the House of Representatives, but the Senate may propose amendments as in other bills.

Appropriation Bills

Section 11.
The general appropriation bill shall embrace nothing but appropriations for the executive, legislative and judicial departments of the Commonwealth, for the public debt and for public schools. All other appropriations shall be made by separate bills, each embracing but one subject.

Legislation Designated by Governor at Special Sessions

Section 12.
When the General Assembly shall be convened in special session, there shall be no legislation upon subjects other than those designated in the proclamation of the Governor calling such session.

Vote Denied Members with Personal Interest

Section 12.
A member who has a personal or private interest in any measure or bill proposed or pending before the General Assembly shall disclose the fact to the House of which he is a member, and shall not vote thereon. Constitution of the Commonwealth of Pennsylvania

Rather than seeing elected representatives wasting public time proposing hot button socially divisive issues that have no real chance of passing but are intended to merely pander to and shore up supporters, I think the kinds of amendments expressed above would get alot more bipartisan support in the public.

The public would have to push these matters because politicians would rather play the same games, but when a bipartisan groundswell gets started, politicians usually latch onto them because the sleeping lion is awake and they would rather get the benefit of being the lion's feeder than the lion's prey.

01-15-2007, 04:50 AM	#11
gkruCRi1 Join Date Oct 2005 Posts 505 Senior Member	So after months and months of campaigning on fiscal responsiblity and transparency the Senate Democrats made themselves out to be complete hypocrates this week. After the House passed a strong and sweeping bill that would give the American people disclosure to Congressional earmarks, the Democratic Leadership in the Senate was apparently against allowing us all to see how much of our money they waste on pork barrel spending in the name of their own reelection aspirations. When Republican Senator Jim DeMint offered an amendment to toughen the much weaker Senate bill and match it to the full strength of the passed House bill Reid and Durbin had a fit and tried to squash the amendment my tabling it. Much to their surprise, their effort embarrassingly failed. This is but a piece of the article. There is much more to read in the link. Someone should ask Reid why he was lying to the American people for the past year as he and his party were out trumpeting fiscal reform and transparency. We should also be asking why Reid, Durbin, and the majority of Senate Democrats are against the American people being allowed to know where our tax dollars are going? From what I am reading, saying it is 'Senate Dems' who are doing this is inaccurate. The Senate has 100 members, and 50 are Dems, one socialist from Vermont will caucus with them, and 49 are Reps. The article states that 9 Dems are in the opposition. The vote was 51-46. This means a rake of Reps are in the opposition too, and by no means all Dems are in the opposition. What this boils down to, IMO, is that some from both parties are favouring the reform at issue, whilst some are not. This doesn't surprise me because neither party did this kind of reform before today anyway, and I'm surprised that so many have gone as far as they have to date on other reforms and come as close as they have on additional ones like this to date. Certainly the Reps could have done this reform up to this fall, and the Dems could have likewise done so when they controlled earlier. Moreover, Senators tend to be the far more entrenched club than the House in deal making with the House, something good in some respects like partisan bills but bad when it comes to self-serving, earmarks, cigar room deals and antics, etc. Inasmuch as it is likely a pipe-dream although it shouldn't be if the public could rally around them, some good proposed amendment material would be something like those added to the Pennsylvania Constitution during a constitutional convention called by the people (since politicians don't like putting handcuffs on themselves) during the 1870s about how bills must be passed in their efforts to stop shenanigans in legislating. Article III LEGISLATION A. Procedure Passage of Laws Section 1. No law shall be passed except by bill, and no bill shall be so altered or amended, on its passage through either House, as to change its original purpose. Reference to Committee; Printing Section 2. No bill shall be considered unless referred to a committee, printed for the use of the members and returned therefrom. Form of Bills Section 3. No bill shall be passed containing more than one subject, which shall be clearly expressed in its title, except a general appropriation bill or a bill codifying or compiling the law or a part thereof. Consideration of Bills Section 4. Every bill shall be considered on three different days in each House. All amendments made thereto shall be printed for the use of the members before the final vote is taken on the bill and before the final vote is taken, upon written request addressed to the presiding officer of either House by at least twenty-five percent of the members elected to that House, any bill shall be read at length in that House. No bill shall become a law, unless on its final passage the vote is taken by yeas and nays, the names of the persons voting for and against it are entered on the journal, and a majority of the members elected to each House is recorded thereon as voting in its favor. Concurring in Amendments; Conference Committee Reports Section 5. No amendment to bills by one House shall be concurred in by the other, except by the vote of a majority of the members elected thereto, taken by yeas and nays, and the names of those voting recorded upon the journals. Revival and Amendment of Laws Section 6. No law shall be revived, amended, or the provisions thereof extended or conferred, by reference to its title only, but so much thereof as is revived, amended, extended or conferred shall be re-enacted and published at length. Notice of Local and Special Bills Section 7. No local or special bill shall be passed unless notice of the intention to apply therefor shall have been published in the locality where the matter or the thing to be effected may be situated, which notice shall be at least thirty days prior to the introduction into the General Assembly of such bill and in the manner to be provided by law; the evidence of such notice having been published, shall be exhibited in the General Assembly, before such act shall be passed. Signing of Bills Section 8. The presiding officer of each House shall, in the presence of the House over which he presides, sign all bills and joint resolutions passed by the General Assembly, after their titles have been publicly read immediately before signing; and the fact of signing shall be entered on the journal. Action on Concurrent Orders and Resolutions Section 9. Every order, resolution or vote, to which the concurrence of both Houses may be necessary, except on the question of adjournment, shall be presented to the Governor and before it shall take effect be approved by him, or being disapproved, shall be repassed by two-thirds of both Houses according to the rules and limitations prescribed in case of a bill. Revenue Bills Section 10. All bills for raising revenue shall originate in the House of Representatives, but the Senate may propose amendments as in other bills. Appropriation Bills Section 11. The general appropriation bill shall embrace nothing but appropriations for the executive, legislative and judicial departments of the Commonwealth, for the public debt and for public schools. All other appropriations shall be made by separate bills, each embracing but one subject. Legislation Designated by Governor at Special Sessions Section 12. When the General Assembly shall be convened in special session, there shall be no legislation upon subjects other than those designated in the proclamation of the Governor calling such session. Vote Denied Members with Personal Interest Section 12. A member who has a personal or private interest in any measure or bill proposed or pending before the General Assembly shall disclose the fact to the House of which he is a member, and shall not vote thereon. Constitution of the Commonwealth of Pennsylvania Rather than seeing elected representatives wasting public time proposing hot button socially divisive issues that have no real chance of passing but are intended to merely pander to and shore up supporters, I think the kinds of amendments expressed above would get alot more bipartisan support in the public. The public would have to push these matters because politicians would rather play the same games, but when a bipartisan groundswell gets started, politicians usually latch onto them because the sleeping lion is awake and they would rather get the benefit of being the lion's feeder than the lion's prey.
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