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**bestonlinepharmasy2** · 04-05-2011, 06:59 PM

We don't know what information was obtained by what means. We probably never will.

All this conjecture - on both sides - is simply that.

That's not true.

One insider after another comes out to tell us how it really is, while the Cheney's and Bill Kristol and other chicken hawks tell themselves that hands down it works.

One CIA person after another has testified over the last few years, and every year gives us more and more books of information on how "enhanced interrogation" techniques slow the whole process down.

Again, if you torture me and keep asking if John Smith is OBL's courier and I say no 182 times as KSM did, but on the 183rd time I say yes so that you stop torturing me, if you then go on that as hard evidence you're a great big fool.

Bin Laden Raid Revives Debate on Value of Torture - NYTimes.com

But a closer look at prisoner interrogations suggests that the harsh techniques played a small role at most in identifying Bin Laden’s trusted courier and exposing his hide-out. One detainee who apparently was subjected to some tough treatment provided a crucial description of the courier, according to current and former officials briefed on the interrogations. But two prisoners who underwent some of the harshest treatment — including Khalid Shaikh Mohammed, who was waterboarded 183 times — repeatedly misled their interrogators about the courier’s identity. A "small role at most" is the furthest anyone is going on this.

Neo-cons are simply trying to shape a narrative that says Obama was simply lucky since Bush's harsh techniques saved the day and led American intel to Bin Laden, when the truth is that torture slows the process down and forces people to do double-takes on everything they're getting from detainees.

If you say 2+2=5 when reality is that it doesn't, that doesn't make it a "debate".

If CIA agents who've been detailing this stuff in testimonials and in books were going the other way, I'd believe that, but they're not.

The only people going that way are neo-con chicken hawks without SEARS training or anything else but what they've made up on their own while sitting around telling each other that "24" is the basis of their argument.

04-05-2011, 06:59 PM	#19
bestonlinepharmasy2 Join Date Oct 2005 Posts 514 Senior Member	We don't know what information was obtained by what means. We probably never will. All this conjecture - on both sides - is simply that. That's not true. One insider after another comes out to tell us how it really is, while the Cheney's and Bill Kristol and other chicken hawks tell themselves that hands down it works. One CIA person after another has testified over the last few years, and every year gives us more and more books of information on how "enhanced interrogation" techniques slow the whole process down. Again, if you torture me and keep asking if John Smith is OBL's courier and I say no 182 times as KSM did, but on the 183rd time I say yes so that you stop torturing me, if you then go on that as hard evidence you're a great big fool. Bin Laden Raid Revives Debate on Value of Torture - NYTimes.com But a closer look at prisoner interrogations suggests that the harsh techniques played a small role at most in identifying Bin Laden’s trusted courier and exposing his hide-out. One detainee who apparently was subjected to some tough treatment provided a crucial description of the courier, according to current and former officials briefed on the interrogations. But two prisoners who underwent some of the harshest treatment — including Khalid Shaikh Mohammed, who was waterboarded 183 times — repeatedly misled their interrogators about the courier’s identity. A "small role at most" is the furthest anyone is going on this. Neo-cons are simply trying to shape a narrative that says Obama was simply lucky since Bush's harsh techniques saved the day and led American intel to Bin Laden, when the truth is that torture slows the process down and forces people to do double-takes on everything they're getting from detainees. If you say 2+2=5 when reality is that it doesn't, that doesn't make it a "debate". If CIA agents who've been detailing this stuff in testimonials and in books were going the other way, I'd believe that, but they're not. The only people going that way are neo-con chicken hawks without SEARS training or anything else but what they've made up on their own while sitting around telling each other that "24" is the basis of their argument.
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