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**thushioli** · 08-03-2011, 07:17 PM

The whole problem with that bullshit is that they are not criminal suspects in the first place. They are accused of no crime. They are captured enemy combatants.

I'm actually glad you opened the door to this topic because IMO the US government has failed to consistently categorise these detainees at all and in manners I find troubling from a fairness and strategic standpoint.

Since the Bush Admin and into the Obama Admin--and I mean not only the Admins themselves but all the full government itself such as Congress, both party machines, the agencies, etc, have treated these detainees as either criminals or illegal combatants however they have seen fit in a haphazard and convenient manner.

For example, we've done civil proceeding criminal trials for AQ people long before 9.11, never mind afterwards (Zacarias Moussaoui, the blind Sheikh Omar Abdel-Rahman, Ahmed Ghailani, Richard Reid, etc). On the other hand, we've done military tribunals for others (Omar Khadr, etc) at Gitmo, under the 'illegal combatant' concept. They are either murdering civilian criminals or illegal combatants but not both. Yet, the government has consistently kept the classification deliberately confused and acted in full convenience in how they've been handling them on a case-by-case basis. It's insincere and improper IMO.

As for myself, I've long reached the conclusion that they should be properly classified as common criminals who ought to face the death penalty or life without parole in a SuperMax prison for mass murder and other top rated felonies. I've likewise called for the application and/or enactment of criminal laws that make mere membership in that movement to be a capital offence or life without parole offence. I don't care what role one has in it...if one joins it, then they are on the hook for all it does given each member knows what it does.

'Unlawful combatants' have been generally and traditionally categorised as spies and saboteurs violating rules of engagement in bona fide wars and insurgencies. Men caught in non-uniformed spy status like Nathan Hale of the American rebels and Major John Andre of the British during the American Revolutionary War were 'unlawful combatants.' The German non-uniformed saboteurs who were Abwehr (German military intelligence) agents and were landed by U-boat in the US during WWII to conduct sabotage operations were 'unlawful combatants.'

The German saboteurs and spies like John Andre were performing acts requested by and on behalf of their nation against another during a state of declared war between them. Their missions were legitimate military objectives in nature; they just weren't in uniform as required, which made them illegal combatants. The rules of war require that combatants be properly identified so the war can be conducted with regard as to who is a civilian and who is a combatant. Without that rule, it would be wild chaos with civilians being indiscriminately killed, harassed, etc, given the inability to identify who is a combatant.

As for AQ, however, they are simply notorious criminals IMO. They are not part of an organised 'war' in any traditional sense. To me, they are like the the old 'night riders' of the KKK or an international drug gang like MS-13 or the Zetas, etc.

Moreover, that any asshole can choose at any time to 'join AQ' like one joins a 'Twelve Step programme' and hop on a plane and attempt to blow it up like Richard Reid, a scumbag violent prison convict who decided to become a Muslim radical and blow up a plane consistent with his criminal propensities to be deemed an 'illegal combatant' is absurd IMO.

They don't deserve the honour and distinction of being deemed an 'illegal combatant' as if they are bona fide warriors in a war. The likes of John Andre, Nathan Hale, Mata Hari, etc, would turn in their graves being associated with the likes of these shitbags. They're just mass murdering criminal terrorists and ought to be declared as such.

Insofar as strategy is concerned, calling them such also bequeaths them a higher status than they deserve and elevates any shitbag who wishes to be inspired by AQ and commit violent acts akin to wanton and depraved criminality rather than recognised war conduct to warrior status. Is this asshole a 'warrior'?

Authorities Make Arrest in Alleged Plot to Blow Up Military Recruitment Center
Published December 08, 2010
| FoxNews.com

A man was arrested Wednesday for plotting to blow up a military recruitment center in the Baltimore area, authorities said.

Antonio Martinez, a Muslim convert who called himself Muhammed Hussain, was arrested and is expected to appear later Wednesday in federal court, Fox News confirms.

Martinez, a U.S. citizen, was caught in a sting operation as he tried to detonate a phony bomb at an Armed Forces recruiting station in Catonsville, just outside Baltimore, officials said.

. . . Authorities Make Arrest in Alleged Plot to Blow Up Military Recruitment Center - FoxNews.com

To me, he's just a malignant violent scumbag and deserves to be treated as such. To give him or his likes any military recognition or be placed in the more honoured position of spies and saboteurs in bona fide war conflicts is giving undue status to AQ and such people that they do not deserve.

08-03-2011, 07:17 PM	#39
thushioli Join Date Oct 2005 Posts 351 Senior Member	The whole problem with that bullshit is that they are not criminal suspects in the first place. They are accused of no crime. They are captured enemy combatants. I'm actually glad you opened the door to this topic because IMO the US government has failed to consistently categorise these detainees at all and in manners I find troubling from a fairness and strategic standpoint. Since the Bush Admin and into the Obama Admin--and I mean not only the Admins themselves but all the full government itself such as Congress, both party machines, the agencies, etc, have treated these detainees as either criminals or illegal combatants however they have seen fit in a haphazard and convenient manner. For example, we've done civil proceeding criminal trials for AQ people long before 9.11, never mind afterwards (Zacarias Moussaoui, the blind Sheikh Omar Abdel-Rahman, Ahmed Ghailani, Richard Reid, etc). On the other hand, we've done military tribunals for others (Omar Khadr, etc) at Gitmo, under the 'illegal combatant' concept. They are either murdering civilian criminals or illegal combatants but not both. Yet, the government has consistently kept the classification deliberately confused and acted in full convenience in how they've been handling them on a case-by-case basis. It's insincere and improper IMO. As for myself, I've long reached the conclusion that they should be properly classified as common criminals who ought to face the death penalty or life without parole in a SuperMax prison for mass murder and other top rated felonies. I've likewise called for the application and/or enactment of criminal laws that make mere membership in that movement to be a capital offence or life without parole offence. I don't care what role one has in it...if one joins it, then they are on the hook for all it does given each member knows what it does. 'Unlawful combatants' have been generally and traditionally categorised as spies and saboteurs violating rules of engagement in bona fide wars and insurgencies. Men caught in non-uniformed spy status like Nathan Hale of the American rebels and Major John Andre of the British during the American Revolutionary War were 'unlawful combatants.' The German non-uniformed saboteurs who were Abwehr (German military intelligence) agents and were landed by U-boat in the US during WWII to conduct sabotage operations were 'unlawful combatants.' The German saboteurs and spies like John Andre were performing acts requested by and on behalf of their nation against another during a state of declared war between them. Their missions were legitimate military objectives in nature; they just weren't in uniform as required, which made them illegal combatants. The rules of war require that combatants be properly identified so the war can be conducted with regard as to who is a civilian and who is a combatant. Without that rule, it would be wild chaos with civilians being indiscriminately killed, harassed, etc, given the inability to identify who is a combatant. As for AQ, however, they are simply notorious criminals IMO. They are not part of an organised 'war' in any traditional sense. To me, they are like the the old 'night riders' of the KKK or an international drug gang like MS-13 or the Zetas, etc. Moreover, that any asshole can choose at any time to 'join AQ' like one joins a 'Twelve Step programme' and hop on a plane and attempt to blow it up like Richard Reid, a scumbag violent prison convict who decided to become a Muslim radical and blow up a plane consistent with his criminal propensities to be deemed an 'illegal combatant' is absurd IMO. They don't deserve the honour and distinction of being deemed an 'illegal combatant' as if they are bona fide warriors in a war. The likes of John Andre, Nathan Hale, Mata Hari, etc, would turn in their graves being associated with the likes of these shitbags. They're just mass murdering criminal terrorists and ought to be declared as such. Insofar as strategy is concerned, calling them such also bequeaths them a higher status than they deserve and elevates any shitbag who wishes to be inspired by AQ and commit violent acts akin to wanton and depraved criminality rather than recognised war conduct to warrior status. Is this asshole a 'warrior'? Authorities Make Arrest in Alleged Plot to Blow Up Military Recruitment Center Published December 08, 2010 \| FoxNews.com A man was arrested Wednesday for plotting to blow up a military recruitment center in the Baltimore area, authorities said. Antonio Martinez, a Muslim convert who called himself Muhammed Hussain, was arrested and is expected to appear later Wednesday in federal court, Fox News confirms. Martinez, a U.S. citizen, was caught in a sting operation as he tried to detonate a phony bomb at an Armed Forces recruiting station in Catonsville, just outside Baltimore, officials said. . . . Authorities Make Arrest in Alleged Plot to Blow Up Military Recruitment Center - FoxNews.com To me, he's just a malignant violent scumbag and deserves to be treated as such. To give him or his likes any military recognition or be placed in the more honoured position of spies and saboteurs in bona fide war conflicts is giving undue status to AQ and such people that they do not deserve.
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