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**Derrida** · 03-03-2011, 06:07 PM

You did not get my point then. NATO could stay another 10 years and still maker the same excuses you are making. But they cannot point to any meaningful results of their current strategy of shooting blindly in the dark with their fingers crossed.

That is not the overall strategy, Andrew, and you know it.

Because it is personal, and as such irrelevant to the big picture i am concerned about. You have offered slogans like "do what needs to be done" but nobody knows what that means - mass murder, scorched earth, carpet bombing? If that is what you mean can you describe in detail how that would translate into success? How would it be different from anywhere else that has been tried in the last 50 years? Again, after 10 years where are we? Thousands of people dead for what? Can you point to any real success that will last beyond the moment NATO eventually leaves? Your personal experience might be interesting over a few beers, but that is it.

I want to hear something meaningful. Not "war is bad and there are mistakes"... we all know that already. We want to know exactly what it is these civilians are dying for because it sure the fuck is not clear to most people.

Reasons have been given, Andrew. The problem here is that you don't think those reasons are good though, and that is fine. But don't pretend like you haven't been told. Man up and just say you think they are bullshit reasons, but reasons nonetheless.

We went into Afghanistan to 1) find and capture/kill the leadership of the organization that planned and carried out the attacks of September 11th and 2) to deny such groups a safehaven from which they can plan/carry out additional attacks. Part of the second part is giving the Afghani people a chance to stand on their own feet, to live with some measure of freedom, and to fight those who would see us fail. Those missions are ongoing. We are fighting a war of ideas and ideals.

Again, you may feel those reasons are bullshit (even lies) and not worth the effort we are putting forward, and that is fine. But, again, don't pretend that you weren't told. Hell, as I have said, I don't think the Afghani people are worth the blood being shed to provide the second point.

Thor,

Another way to put this, why should i listen to you and not these soldiers?

Why we are against the Wars - IVAW.org

In the end it has to be about the big picture, and not about the soldiers.

Andrew

You should listen to both of us, digest what you hear, and then make your decision. In the end, Andrew, I don't think you are really capable of getting the big picture without the picture of what is going on on the ground.

03-03-2011, 06:07 PM	#31
Derrida Join Date Oct 2005 Posts 372 Senior Member	You did not get my point then. NATO could stay another 10 years and still maker the same excuses you are making. But they cannot point to any meaningful results of their current strategy of shooting blindly in the dark with their fingers crossed. That is not the overall strategy, Andrew, and you know it. Because it is personal, and as such irrelevant to the big picture i am concerned about. You have offered slogans like "do what needs to be done" but nobody knows what that means - mass murder, scorched earth, carpet bombing? If that is what you mean can you describe in detail how that would translate into success? How would it be different from anywhere else that has been tried in the last 50 years? Again, after 10 years where are we? Thousands of people dead for what? Can you point to any real success that will last beyond the moment NATO eventually leaves? Your personal experience might be interesting over a few beers, but that is it. I want to hear something meaningful. Not "war is bad and there are mistakes"... we all know that already. We want to know exactly what it is these civilians are dying for because it sure the fuck is not clear to most people. Reasons have been given, Andrew. The problem here is that you don't think those reasons are good though, and that is fine. But don't pretend like you haven't been told. Man up and just say you think they are bullshit reasons, but reasons nonetheless. We went into Afghanistan to 1) find and capture/kill the leadership of the organization that planned and carried out the attacks of September 11th and 2) to deny such groups a safehaven from which they can plan/carry out additional attacks. Part of the second part is giving the Afghani people a chance to stand on their own feet, to live with some measure of freedom, and to fight those who would see us fail. Those missions are ongoing. We are fighting a war of ideas and ideals. Again, you may feel those reasons are bullshit (even lies) and not worth the effort we are putting forward, and that is fine. But, again, don't pretend that you weren't told. Hell, as I have said, I don't think the Afghani people are worth the blood being shed to provide the second point. Thor, Another way to put this, why should i listen to you and not these soldiers? Why we are against the Wars - IVAW.org In the end it has to be about the big picture, and not about the soldiers. Andrew You should listen to both of us, digest what you hear, and then make your decision. In the end, Andrew, I don't think you are really capable of getting the big picture without the picture of what is going on on the ground.
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