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**gkruCRi1** · 06-04-2010, 06:34 PM

Salon? SALON???? Seriously? Come on man, an online magazine. I gotcha. And then you have the NYT's report where they "suggested" that these things happened....suggested. Did they really happen? That is quite possible. Is it our policy to do those things? Besides the waterboarding to those three whole pieces of shit excuses for human beings? No. Your Marine relative had it done to him as part of training....TRAINING. Are you suggesting that we are torturing our own military personnel? What constitutes torture? Where do we draw the line? It's an arbitrary thing. What is considered torture for one person isn't torture for another.

. It's also not something that is easy to conceptualize when you haven't been in the situation.

Stanford prison experiment - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

These are "normal" educated people. This is the problem when people sit, safe, far from the danger and the situation and judge. Problem is, these very same people get put in the situation and they do the very same thing.

Did you read the link I gave or did you just see Salon, the article was from Wikipedia which you also quote and I only listed a few examples, the examples are well footnoted and documented I suggest you read the link. It quotes military officers and Donald Rumsfeld.

Abu Ghraib torture and prisoner abuse - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

I'll list it again. Are you suggesting that because you don't like the source, it isn't true? I was merely contradicting your statement that no one lost their life. Personally I think rape is pretty bad, maybe you feel different.

No I'm not suggesting that we torture our Marines in training, he volunteered for the advanced training, just stating that even though he knew it was training, even though he knew the people doing it to him weren't gonna kill him, it was terrifying. He told me he couldn't imagine how it would feel, if he was a real captive. BTW, he passed the course.

The first thing I’d say is we’re appalled as well. These are our fellow soldiers. These are the people we work with every day, and they represent us. They wear the same uniform as us, and they let their fellow soldiers down [...] Our soldiers could be taken prisoner as well. And we expect our soldiers to be treated well by the adversary, by the enemy. And if we can't hold ourselves up as an example of how to treat people with dignity and respect [...] We can't ask that other nations to that to our soldiers as well. [...] So what would I tell the people of Iraq? This is wrong. This is reprehensible. But this is not representative of the 150,000 soldiers that are over here [...] I'd say the same thing to the American people ... Don't judge your army based on the actions of a few.
—Gen Mark Kimmitt, [19] Another quote from an officer. And no I don't judge the military by the actions of a few, but I don't try to deny that it happened.

At the same time, Kimmitt said: “I'd like to sit here and say that these are the only prisoner abuse cases that we're aware of, but we know that there have been some other ones since we've been here in Iraq.”[19 another quote by the same officer.

Former Marine Lt. Col. Bill Cowan was also interviewed, stating: “We went into Iraq to stop things like this from happening, and indeed, here they are happening under our tutelage.” another quote by a different officer.

Were you trying to say these things didn't happen, by attacking the source?

Many of the people that allegedly did those things are punished already So are you saying these things only allegedly happened?

06-04-2010, 06:34 PM	#17
gkruCRi1 Join Date Oct 2005 Posts 505 Senior Member	Salon? SALON???? Seriously? Come on man, an online magazine. I gotcha. And then you have the NYT's report where they "suggested" that these things happened....suggested. Did they really happen? That is quite possible. Is it our policy to do those things? Besides the waterboarding to those three whole pieces of shit excuses for human beings? No. Your Marine relative had it done to him as part of training....TRAINING. Are you suggesting that we are torturing our own military personnel? What constitutes torture? Where do we draw the line? It's an arbitrary thing. What is considered torture for one person isn't torture for another. . It's also not something that is easy to conceptualize when you haven't been in the situation. Stanford prison experiment - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia These are "normal" educated people. This is the problem when people sit, safe, far from the danger and the situation and judge. Problem is, these very same people get put in the situation and they do the very same thing. Did you read the link I gave or did you just see Salon, the article was from Wikipedia which you also quote and I only listed a few examples, the examples are well footnoted and documented I suggest you read the link. It quotes military officers and Donald Rumsfeld. Abu Ghraib torture and prisoner abuse - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia I'll list it again. Are you suggesting that because you don't like the source, it isn't true? I was merely contradicting your statement that no one lost their life. Personally I think rape is pretty bad, maybe you feel different. No I'm not suggesting that we torture our Marines in training, he volunteered for the advanced training, just stating that even though he knew it was training, even though he knew the people doing it to him weren't gonna kill him, it was terrifying. He told me he couldn't imagine how it would feel, if he was a real captive. BTW, he passed the course. The first thing I’d say is we’re appalled as well. These are our fellow soldiers. These are the people we work with every day, and they represent us. They wear the same uniform as us, and they let their fellow soldiers down [...] Our soldiers could be taken prisoner as well. And we expect our soldiers to be treated well by the adversary, by the enemy. And if we can't hold ourselves up as an example of how to treat people with dignity and respect [...] We can't ask that other nations to that to our soldiers as well. [...] So what would I tell the people of Iraq? This is wrong. This is reprehensible. But this is not representative of the 150,000 soldiers that are over here [...] I'd say the same thing to the American people ... Don't judge your army based on the actions of a few. —Gen Mark Kimmitt, [19] Another quote from an officer. And no I don't judge the military by the actions of a few, but I don't try to deny that it happened. At the same time, Kimmitt said: “I'd like to sit here and say that these are the only prisoner abuse cases that we're aware of, but we know that there have been some other ones since we've been here in Iraq.”[19 another quote by the same officer. Former Marine Lt. Col. Bill Cowan was also interviewed, stating: “We went into Iraq to stop things like this from happening, and indeed, here they are happening under our tutelage.” another quote by a different officer. Were you trying to say these things didn't happen, by attacking the source? Many of the people that allegedly did those things are punished already So are you saying these things only allegedly happened?
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