DiscussWorldIssues - Socio-Economic Religion and Political Uncensored Debate - View Single Post

**soyclocky** · 09-02-2010, 02:02 AM

Do you think we, as citizens, should kill someone that we know is planning to conduct a terrorist attack, if our government has demonstrated that they will do nothing about it?

No, I do not.

If you are at the scene if it happens, it is our oblligation and duty to try and prevent it, and apprehend the individuals if possible. If you have a Concealed Carry and are armed, it is perfectly resonable to use Deadly Force in doing so. And if they are killed, so be it.

But "we, as citizens, should kill someone" implies that we should not simply stop them, but execute them. And that is the wrong answer.

The "if we hear about it and the Government does nothing" once again steps beyond the bounds of simply being a bystander when it occurs, and takes you from bystander to vigilante.

You have to understand, I take this kind of thing very seriously. Even though I have not had to recite for 22 years, I can still say from memory both the definition of Deadly Force, but the 6 Justifications for it's use.

And you yourself just stated, that the people had not actually conducted an attack. They are only planning it. Well, that really means nothing. Remember, we live in a nation with laws and a Constitution. Not only is a person innocent until proven guilty, if they have not actually comitted a crime they have not done anything wrong.

Quite often, I find myself planning attacks and crimes. Most of that is simply part of my background, and the planning is part of prevention. At work we often talk about how we would attack our unit, in order to try and prevent such an attack. On a regular basis we "attack" ourselves, in order to protect us from attack.

And because I also worked Security as a civilian, I often find myself while I am in a store or in a bank, try to think of ways to commit a robbery. I have even talked to others I am with and swapped ideas about how to do it. But this is all simply a form of "mental masturbation", and we would never actually do it.

Last year, before our deployment here to the Sand Box, I was picked to be part of the OpFor in a field exercise. We left the site, got changed into civilian clothes, and over 2 nights conducted mock attacks on our site. And each night, we stopped at the local Carl's Jr. to plan the "operation" for the night (after eating MREs and field mess for 3 weeks, it was nice to get real food).

Now imagine somebody sitting by, listening to our plans. We were talking about what time we would start the attack, who would approach by what means, how we would breech the wire, and what weapons we would mount on the "Technical" (which was my Silverado). We were also practicing our "lines" that we would be saying during the approach, like "Allah Akbar" (God is great), "Al hamdu lillah" (Praise be to God), "Sallallahu alayhi wa sallam" (May Allah bless him and grant him peace), "Kol khara" (eat feeces), "Eben ahbe" (Son of a bitch), and "Kus umak" (kiss my tush). Then before we got into our vehicles, we would put on simulated explosive vests (made with road flares), head scarfs, and web belts with ammo pouches. And we all pulled from the trunks AK-47s and M-16s (Air soft models, but they looked real).

You would probably be sure we were gonna blow up the base. And if that person thought like you, you would be looking at 4-8 dead Soldiers who were simply doing their job.

09-02-2010, 02:02 AM	#39
soyclocky Join Date Oct 2005 Posts 371 Senior Member	Do you think we, as citizens, should kill someone that we know is *planning to conduct* a terrorist attack, if our government has demonstrated that they will do nothing about it? No, I do not. If you are at the scene if it happens, it is our oblligation and duty to try and prevent it, and apprehend the individuals if possible. If you have a Concealed Carry and are armed, it is perfectly resonable to use Deadly Force in doing so. And if they are killed, so be it. But "we, as citizens, should kill someone" implies that we should not simply stop them, but execute them. And that is the wrong answer. The "if we hear about it and the Government does nothing" once again steps beyond the bounds of simply being a bystander when it occurs, and takes you from bystander to vigilante. You have to understand, I take this kind of thing very seriously. Even though I have not had to recite for 22 years, I can still say from memory both the definition of Deadly Force, but the 6 Justifications for it's use. And you yourself just stated, that the people had not actually conducted an attack. They are only planning it. Well, that really means nothing. Remember, we live in a nation with laws and a Constitution. Not only is a person innocent until proven guilty, if they have not actually comitted a crime they have not done anything wrong. Quite often, I find myself planning attacks and crimes. Most of that is simply part of my background, and the planning is part of prevention. At work we often talk about how we would attack our unit, in order to try and prevent such an attack. On a regular basis we "attack" ourselves, in order to protect us from attack. And because I also worked Security as a civilian, I often find myself while I am in a store or in a bank, try to think of ways to commit a robbery. I have even talked to others I am with and swapped ideas about how to do it. But this is all simply a form of "mental masturbation", and we would never actually do it. Last year, before our deployment here to the Sand Box, I was picked to be part of the OpFor in a field exercise. We left the site, got changed into civilian clothes, and over 2 nights conducted mock attacks on our site. And each night, we stopped at the local Carl's Jr. to plan the "operation" for the night (after eating MREs and field mess for 3 weeks, it was nice to get real food). Now imagine somebody sitting by, listening to our plans. We were talking about what time we would start the attack, who would approach by what means, how we would breech the wire, and what weapons we would mount on the "Technical" (which was my Silverado). We were also practicing our "lines" that we would be saying during the approach, like "Allah Akbar" (God is great), "Al hamdu lillah" (Praise be to God), "Sallallahu alayhi wa sallam" (May Allah bless him and grant him peace), "Kol khara" (eat feeces), "Eben ahbe" (Son of a bitch), and "Kus umak" (kiss my tush). Then before we got into our vehicles, we would put on simulated explosive vests (made with road flares), head scarfs, and web belts with ammo pouches. And we all pulled from the trunks AK-47s and M-16s (Air soft models, but they looked real). You would probably be sure we were gonna blow up the base. And if that person thought like you, you would be looking at 4-8 dead Soldiers who were simply doing their job.
	Quote