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**inilbowly** · 05-22-2007, 10:19 AM

As we used to say back home:

Work to live, don't live to work. [thumbup]

And honestly, the only people that the folks in Detroit can blame are themselves. Why? Unions, plain and simple. My dad works for GM. When he was up in management, he got to watch his benefits get whittled away by the union to pay for the pensions and benefits of the hourly guys. He's back on hourly now, with the attitude of sticking it to the company. So where's the loyalty there? If the unions would learn and realize that the companies can't pay what they used to because people live longer and have pensions, not to mention 401(k)s and IRAs, what are they supposed to do? Personally, I think any unionized company should drop the unions like a hot potato, as I'm sure they'd start making money again.

And you say that Boeing is producing a part for 3% cheaper? Dude. . .if they produce $1B worth of parts (completely feasible), that's $30M in savings. How many pensions can that pay? How much health care can that cover?

I read a few articles in the WSJ about a town in Indiana I believe it was that was going to turn to a ghost town because a factory was shutting down because the union had bled the thing out. People were bitching and whining "Oh, without the union, I'll only make $30,000, and won't be able to take a vacation for 4 weeks out to California! I have a $400,000 house and a yacht I'm still paying on, not to mention 2 $50,000 cars!" Wow. . .you honestly thought your unskilled or slightly skilled labor would be around for a while? Please. Robots do it longer, faster, don't need breaks, nor do they need benefits. So instead of needing that unskilled job, learn a skill and maintain the robots your company just bought.

Anyway, point being, most of the time, employees have one thing to blame for the ****: unions. If there's a union, there's most likely corporate ass-raping around the corner somewhere. Look at either Mitsubishi or Mazda, i forget which. THere are tonnes of factories in America now, and their employees refuse unionization because the company actually takes care of them.

There's no company loyalty these days; that's were **** started going wrong.

Edit: I forgot to add. . .for that $30M a year that they're saving, based on a $60,000 a year pension. . .do the math and find out how many old farts that are golfing or sitting on their ass drinking beer that supports. And keep in mind, spouses generally pull benefits after the retired employee dies. Now you've got an idea why most of the large companies cut costs left and right. And old **** retiring from GM at 55, living to be 80, will cost the company at LEAST $750K. Now, those old farts might have needed that pension 20 or 30 years ago, but today? With 401(k)s and IRAs? Hell no. . .yet they still bitch and whine for them.

Just yet something else to show the corporate blood-letting the wonderful denizens of USA cause.

05-22-2007, 10:19 AM	#9
inilbowly Join Date Oct 2005 Posts 497 Senior Member	As we used to say back home: Work to live, don't live to work. [thumbup] And honestly, the only people that the folks in Detroit can blame are themselves. Why? Unions, plain and simple. My dad works for GM. When he was up in management, he got to watch his benefits get whittled away by the union to pay for the pensions and benefits of the hourly guys. He's back on hourly now, with the attitude of sticking it to the company. So where's the loyalty there? If the unions would learn and realize that the companies can't pay what they used to because people live longer and have pensions, not to mention 401(k)s and IRAs, what are they supposed to do? Personally, I think any unionized company should drop the unions like a hot potato, as I'm sure they'd start making money again. And you say that Boeing is producing a part for 3% cheaper? Dude. . .if they produce $1B worth of parts (completely feasible), that's $30M in savings. How many pensions can that pay? How much health care can that cover? I read a few articles in the WSJ about a town in Indiana I believe it was that was going to turn to a ghost town because a factory was shutting down because the union had bled the thing out. People were bitching and whining "Oh, without the union, I'll only make $30,000, and won't be able to take a vacation for 4 weeks out to California! I have a $400,000 house and a yacht I'm still paying on, not to mention 2 $50,000 cars!" Wow. . .you honestly thought your unskilled or slightly skilled labor would be around for a while? Please. Robots do it longer, faster, don't need breaks, nor do they need benefits. So instead of needing that unskilled job, learn a skill and maintain the robots your company just bought. Anyway, point being, most of the time, employees have one thing to blame for the **: unions. If there's a union, there's most likely corporate ass-raping around the corner somewhere. Look at either Mitsubishi or Mazda, i forget which. THere are tonnes of factories in America now, and their employees refuse unionization because the company actually takes care of them. There's no company loyalty these days; that's were started going wrong. Edit: I forgot to add. . .for that $30M a year that they're saving, based on a $60,000 a year pension. . .do the math and find out how many old farts that are golfing or sitting on their ass drinking beer that supports. And keep in mind, spouses generally pull benefits after the retired employee dies. Now you've got an idea why most of the large companies cut costs left and right. And old ** retiring from GM at 55, living to be 80, will cost the company at LEAST $750K. Now, those old farts might have needed that pension 20 or 30 years ago, but today? With 401(k)s and IRAs? Hell no. . .yet they still bitch and whine for them. Just yet something else to show the corporate blood-letting the wonderful denizens of USA cause.
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