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**VarenHokalos** · 06-30-2012, 08:07 PM

So Muslims are not puritans liberal on riba and very strict on clothing? Should we not be more strict against riba because it is more destructive?

Both riba and dress codes are destructive. Riba is doubtlessly a more evil sin, but it is forced upon people in these times, as the Prophet

said would happen. Everyone is covered with its dust. There are many proposed models for Islamic alternatives, yes, but these alternatives are of two sorts;
1) bottom-up, in that they are implemented in small communities. The Murabitun articulate this model for now and it has advantages and disadvantages.
-From its advantages is that it is easier to implement and propagate, and it is not limited by national borders, only by mutual agreement between a series of traders.
-From its disadvantages are that it is extremely precarious. Many countries have laws against this and they could use their laws to seize the assets of these people. In addition, it will always go back into the underlying riba system unless the Murabitun have created a completely self-sustaining network which I doubt strongly. There will always be the need to trade with the outside world and the outside world = riba.

2) Top-down, in that these are plans which are implemented in the large countries by the governments. The issue with this is the powers of the world which organize themselves against such efforts, like the IMF and the World Bank, and in addition - most countries are run by secularists or mushrikeen with very few possible exceptions and they do not care about such things. Many groups have written up possible plans - among them, Hizb ut-Tahrir, and there are many critiques of capitalist economics and the system in general written by a certain strain of 'wahhabi' ulema, among them Shaykh Muhammad Qutb and his pupils from his years at Umm al-Qura. Merely because these things are not translated or made available to you does not mean they do not exist; as is, most of the 'wahhabis' who care about such things are politically active to some extent. Many of the pseudo-secularist murji'a probably do not care about this at all, that is true, but there is more to the story than the Murabitun party line, from which numerous facts are omitted.

Being strict on dress codes does not necessitate being lax on riba, but it might seem that way because numerous groups feel that correcting the dress codes of the people is more in line with what they can realistically achieve in a short time. As said, there are many things written in Arabic by Shaykh Muhammad Qutb and other good ulema.

06-30-2012, 08:07 PM	#4
VarenHokalos Join Date Oct 2005 Posts 356 Senior Member	So Muslims are not puritans liberal on riba and very strict on clothing? Should we not be more strict against riba because it is more destructive? Both riba and dress codes are destructive. Riba is doubtlessly a more evil sin, but it is forced upon people in these times, as the Prophet said would happen. Everyone is covered with its dust. There are many proposed models for Islamic alternatives, yes, but these alternatives are of two sorts; 1) bottom-up, in that they are implemented in small communities. The Murabitun articulate this model for now and it has advantages and disadvantages. -From its advantages is that it is easier to implement and propagate, and it is not limited by national borders, only by mutual agreement between a series of traders. -From its disadvantages are that it is extremely precarious. Many countries have laws against this and they could use their laws to seize the assets of these people. In addition, it will always go back into the underlying riba system unless the Murabitun have created a completely self-sustaining network which I doubt strongly. There will always be the need to trade with the outside world and the outside world = riba. 2) Top-down, in that these are plans which are implemented in the large countries by the governments. The issue with this is the powers of the world which organize themselves against such efforts, like the IMF and the World Bank, and in addition - most countries are run by secularists or mushrikeen with very few possible exceptions and they do not care about such things. Many groups have written up possible plans - among them, Hizb ut-Tahrir, and there are many critiques of capitalist economics and the system in general written by a certain strain of 'wahhabi' ulema, among them Shaykh Muhammad Qutb and his pupils from his years at Umm al-Qura. Merely because these things are not translated or made available to you does not mean they do not exist; as is, most of the 'wahhabis' who care about such things are politically active to some extent. Many of the pseudo-secularist murji'a probably do not care about this at all, that is true, but there is more to the story than the Murabitun party line, from which numerous facts are omitted. Being strict on dress codes does not necessitate being lax on riba, but it might seem that way because numerous groups feel that correcting the dress codes of the people is more in line with what they can realistically achieve in a short time. As said, there are many things written in Arabic by Shaykh Muhammad Qutb and other good ulema.
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