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**Enfotanab** · 06-02-2012, 05:33 AM

As Salamu alaikum fellows.
I think I’ve finally unraveled this mystery.

We see that ALLAH has banned pride.

Salaam.

I and some scholars agree with you on this issue. These scholars are mostly scholars from the West, where pants below the ankles are common among us common people.

Some things that Muhammad, Allah's Messenger (sallahu `alayhi wa salaam) forbade or commanded were prohibitions more against mindsets behind certain actions rather than the actions themselves. And some of these actions that he prohibited are against cultural norms, and they don't necessarily apply to all people of all time. Note that this only applies to a few of his commands. Most of his commands apply to everyone, and EVERYTHING that Allah commands in the Qur'an is eternal and universal (i.e. it applies to everyone) unless He states otherwise (usually by directing certain commands at certain groups of people, such as the command to kill the polytheists which only applied to the Muslims at that time who were in a state of war and not to every Muslim of every place).

An example of this is the Prophet's command to do ghusl before Friday prayers. According to a Hadith from Abu Dawood's collection, a scholar was speaking to a student (forget the names of the people) and the scholar basically said that ghusl before Friday prayers isn't obligatory but mustahhab, and what Rasulallah (sallahu `alayhi wa salaam) was ordering was that the people not be sweaty or stink when going to Friday prayers. The scholar further gave the history behind Rasulallah's prohibition. To sum it up, Rasulallah's prohibition stems from the people working right before Friday prayer and stinking up the place. So that's why he said "Ghusl is obligatory before Friday's prayers".

It's important to look at the reasons behind some of the Prophet's (sallahu `alayhi wa salaam) prohibitions and statements. They all stem from Allah's commands, but some of them are commanded only to ensure that we fulfill Allah's commands.

Getting back to this subject, I and some other scholars would agree with you in that Allah's Apostle (sallahu `alayhi wa salaam) forbade clothing to go below the ankle because it was associated with pride back in his time. In other words, it's not haraam to have pants that go below your knee. It's haraam to project pride, even if you don't have it. Its haraam to even look like you have pride. So RasulAllah (sallahu `alayhi wa salaam) forbade his companions from looking like they have pride by forbidding them to follow a cultural icon of pride---clothing below the ankle.

Nowadays, especially in the West, clothing that goes below the ankle is not a sign of pride, but just an average style. So many (Western) scholars, who truly understand the culture, would say that it's allowed because people here don't do it out of pride, but rather because that's just how jeans are made.

My advice to you is to not argue on this forum about it. People here don't take disagreeing opinions like how we Muslims are supposed to (i.e. with kindness and gentle debate). Instead, it leads to a lot of accusations about someone's deen and little change in anyone's heart, and it leads to anger. Instead, ask a respectable sheikh or imam from the West.

Often times we get sheikhs from the East denouncing everything about Western culture because it contradicts their culture, but Islam is above all cultures. It's best to get an opinion from someone from your culture when it comes to doing things within your culture, as only this person will truly understand why certain things are done in certain ways, as opposed to operating based on stereotypes or as opposed to trying to apply their culture (not Islam, but culture) to you.

To sum it up, I believe and some scholars and other brothers believe that you must not have pride, and you must not look like you have pride. Therefore, whatever clothing styles your culture associates with pride, stay away from them. It would be haraam to wear clothing that projects pride (and note that pride is not the same as confidence and self-esteem). But, it's always mustahhab to follow what Allah's Messenger (sallahu `alayhi wa salaam) commanded. So it's mustahhab to wear your pants above your ankles, but it's not necessarily haraam if you wear jeans that go below it.

Allahu `alaam of course.

06-02-2012, 05:33 AM	#16
Enfotanab Join Date Oct 2005 Posts 398 Senior Member	As Salamu alaikum fellows. I think I’ve finally unraveled this mystery. We see that ALLAH has banned pride. Salaam. I and some scholars agree with you on this issue. These scholars are mostly scholars from the West, where pants below the ankles are common among us common people. Some things that Muhammad, Allah's Messenger (sallahu `alayhi wa salaam) forbade or commanded were prohibitions more against mindsets behind certain actions rather than the actions themselves. And some of these actions that he prohibited are against cultural norms, and they don't necessarily apply to all people of all time. Note that this only applies to a few of his commands. Most of his commands apply to everyone, and EVERYTHING that Allah commands in the Qur'an is eternal and universal (i.e. it applies to everyone) unless He states otherwise (usually by directing certain commands at certain groups of people, such as the command to kill the polytheists which only applied to the Muslims at that time who were in a state of war and not to every Muslim of every place). An example of this is the Prophet's command to do ghusl before Friday prayers. According to a Hadith from Abu Dawood's collection, a scholar was speaking to a student (forget the names of the people) and the scholar basically said that ghusl before Friday prayers isn't obligatory but mustahhab, and what Rasulallah (sallahu `alayhi wa salaam) was ordering was that the people not be sweaty or stink when going to Friday prayers. The scholar further gave the history behind Rasulallah's prohibition. To sum it up, Rasulallah's prohibition stems from the people working right before Friday prayer and stinking up the place. So that's why he said "Ghusl is obligatory before Friday's prayers". It's important to look at the reasons behind some of the Prophet's (sallahu `alayhi wa salaam) prohibitions and statements. They all stem from Allah's commands, but some of them are commanded only to ensure that we fulfill Allah's commands. Getting back to this subject, I and some other scholars would agree with you in that Allah's Apostle (sallahu `alayhi wa salaam) forbade clothing to go below the ankle because it was associated with pride back in his time. In other words, it's not haraam to have pants that go below your knee. It's haraam to project pride, even if you don't have it. Its haraam to even look like you have pride. So RasulAllah (sallahu `alayhi wa salaam) forbade his companions from looking like they have pride by forbidding them to follow a cultural icon of pride---clothing below the ankle. Nowadays, especially in the West, clothing that goes below the ankle is not a sign of pride, but just an average style. So many (Western) scholars, who truly understand the culture, would say that it's allowed because people here don't do it out of pride, but rather because that's just how jeans are made. My advice to you is to not argue on this forum about it. People here don't take disagreeing opinions like how we Muslims are supposed to (i.e. with kindness and gentle debate). Instead, it leads to a lot of accusations about someone's deen and little change in anyone's heart, and it leads to anger. Instead, ask a respectable sheikh or imam from the West. Often times we get sheikhs from the East denouncing everything about Western culture because it contradicts their culture, but Islam is above all cultures. It's best to get an opinion from someone from your culture when it comes to doing things within your culture, as only this person will truly understand why certain things are done in certain ways, as opposed to operating based on stereotypes or as opposed to trying to apply their culture (not Islam, but culture) to you. To sum it up, I believe and some scholars and other brothers believe that you must not have pride, and you must not look like you have pride. Therefore, whatever clothing styles your culture associates with pride, stay away from them. It would be haraam to wear clothing that projects pride (and note that pride is not the same as confidence and self-esteem). But, it's always mustahhab to follow what Allah's Messenger (sallahu `alayhi wa salaam) commanded. So it's mustahhab to wear your pants above your ankles, but it's not necessarily haraam if you wear jeans that go below it. Allahu `alaam of course.
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