DiscussWorldIssues - Socio-Economic Religion and Political Uncensored Debate - View Single Post - Polygamy is worse than having a once-off affair. Saffiya Ismail vents in frustration.

**katetomson** · 05-18-2012, 01:56 AM

As-Salaam Wa-Alaiykum,

Many people when they hear of Muslims, or our religion of Islam; they automatically think of our deen as a faith that sponsors abuse of women, a religion which is intolerant; violent and masculine. Right now you are not helping dispel this false perception by your responses. Personally attacking someone is also wrong in Islam. As muslim brothers firstly, should you try to educate rather than agitate; at the end of the day we are here to learn from one another, and if I am wrong then I am wrong. Do not ever question my Imaan; because you are not my Judge, my judge is the Almighty.

The response to your article was to clear out the misconceptions it would instigate to the masses. Not for a nano second did I judge your iman. Its not my place. But just for sake of education, should there be an incident where someone's iman is to be judged (obviously duty of a qualified Qadhi/Mufti etc), then it will have to be on the apparent. There is a hadith which quoted by fuqaha (Shawafi') which gives this ruling. "نحن نحكم بالظاهر والله يتولى السرائر" (i.e we give rulings according to the whats apparent and relinquish the secrets to Allah").

HENCE my article. IT’S NOT AN ATTACK ON MY FAITH, rather questions on why are we at this junction. Sister, the attack on the faith is inevitable when something established is misrepresented to the masses. The whole institution of 2nd marriage (3r and 4th) is as much established in deen as the first marriage. If someone does not fulfil the rights of the first marriage, which we continuously find that they do not in the many marital disputes that come to the Ulama, then does it seem appropriate to strike a comparison between marriage and keeping girlfriend? Ofcourse not! The two are complete separate issues, not to be compared. One is halal (even if its laws are not being fulfilled) while the other is outright haram and impermissible. The only way of halalifying the latter is to convert it to the first. So the comparison is completely unacceptable from the religious point of view.

If you wish to engage people in jolting them to debate on why we are at this junction, then you can highlight the ills people do in the 2nd marriage and guide them to the solutions. Your article essentially demonized the whole concept of 2nd marriage. Definitely not the right way to tackle the ignorance of the issue.

From the best of my knowledge and correct me if I am wrong The Holy Qur’an doesn’t give any man the liberty to just take wives for the sake of it. In short it does. Quran does give the man a right to take up a second wife. The ayah in the quran is "And if you fear that you shall not be able to deal justly with the orphan-girls, then marry (other) women of your choice, two or three, or four but if you fear that you shall not be able to deal justly (with them), then only one or (the captives and the slaves) that your right hands possess. That is nearer to prevent you from doing injustice..." The only condition Qur'an presented to the husband taking up multiple wives is to deal justly (adl). You have made a couple of point about it later in your post. InshAllah I will tackle it there. But essentially, if you look at the ayah it shows clearly that the amr (commanding verb) is being attributed first to 2 , then 3 then 4. And IF one is unable to fulfill that condition of justice, then he must do what Ayah mentions last (i.e marry only one). The is just a brief overview of the ayah.

Under this ayah in Durr e Mansur Qatadah rahimahullah says that if you fear that you can't do justice with four, then marry three. If you can't do justice between three, then marry two and if you can't do justice between two then marry one. And if you can't do justice to One then stick to your slavewomen.

While the above is one of the tafaseer but it shows how much importance was given to this norm of the culture.

All I am saying is that SOME men have used the word of the Almighty to fit their own desires. That has been the case in many issues. Some women have used the same word of Allah and His Rasul

to find justifications to shed their niqab, hijab etc. This does not mean that we display the whole institute of 2nd marriage as an ill. If you feel that 2nd marriage in time of Rasulullah

(by his own practice) and by the practice of all the sahaba, was exactly how a 2nd marriage of today ought to be, then please edit your article and add in a paragraph giving praise to those who emulate that life of Rasulullah

and sahaba. While you highlight the ills of society, also highlight that cure for many of other ills of the society lay in the sunnah of 2nd marriage as well. All that needs to be done is educate on how to conduct a 2nd marriage. That should be easier than demonising the 2nd marriage totally.

Women were allowed to own property, vote, and considered equal with man, work and allowed the right of divorce. All correct except the last part. WOmen do not have the right of divorce. The do, however, have the right to "demand" a divorce. They may even negotiate this divorce through the Mahr which they received. This concept is called Khul`.

During that period women couldn’t just go get a job or line up for welfare. Women in those times, and by "those times" we refer to time of Sahaba, were cared by their parents, brothers, husband, and Govt. They were more financially liberated than women today. Just as many men have left fulfilling the rules of polygamy due to ignorance, they have equally left fulfilling the rules of Wilaya (guardianship) over their subordinate women folk due to ignorance as well. We have brothers conning sisters for the inheritance, credit card thefts etc. Let alone take care of our sisters. So, women in those times had their assets and financial matter well taken care of than now.

As for welfare, Sayiduna Umar

time saw the best wellfare system, perhaps only to be followed by Umar bin Abd al Aziz r.a

Hence polygamy was allowed to prevent fornication, adultery or prostitution; Please substantiate the above claim. I mentioned only one example of Sayiduna Uthman

. What motives of fornication, adultery and prostitutions were there for Sayiduna Uthman

to marry multiple wifes. History books show countless examples of female nobilities entering into polygynous relation. Why? Not because they feared poverty, adultery or prostitution.

Maulana Taliban has posted this on the forum before :

Hazrat Abu Bakr radiallahu anhu had 4 wives.
Hazrat Umar radiallahu anhu married around approx 8 times
Hazrat Usman radiallahu anhu married 8 times
Hazrat Ali radiallahu anhu married 7 or 8 times.

men who were spiritually, economically and mentally capable to marry more than one wife were encouraged to do so to protect the women. Again, without any substantiation the claim remains a mere claim.

Even if you marry more than one wife, according to the Qur’an you must do justice by them all. What does justice mean in this context? It simply means what you do for one wife must be done for the others. If you buy one a house, car, jewellery or other item you must do the same for all otherwise you are being unjust. If we view this in modern day society with the high cost of living-we begin to see how impractical polygamy can be to a man. It is certainly not just for sex. The Adl which prescribed to be equal between one wives is in Shelter (feeding, clothing) and intimacy nights. What it does not mean is that if you buy a chappi for one then you must buy a chappi for the other too. It mean just like you have provided shelter and clothes for one, you provide shelter and clothing for the other too.

وَأَمَّا عَلَى الْقَوْلِ الْمُفْتَى بِهِ مِنْ اعْتِبَارِ حَالِهِمَا فَلَا فَإِنَّ إحْدَاهُمَا قَدْ تَكُونُ غَنِيَّةً وَالْأُخْرَى فَقِيرَةً، فَلَا يَلْزَمُ التَّسْوِيَةُ بَيْنَهُمَا مُطْلَقًا فِي النَّفَقَةِ
[الدر المختار وحاشية ابن عابدين (رد المحتار) 3/ 202]

All I am trying to say, ADULTERY is WRONG, POLYGAMY is being misused, If that is what you intend to say then you really need to get people to review your articles before its published. Your article is no way close to that message.

Instead of agression against me, rather help set the record straight so that all of us uphold the Tenets. That is exactly what the response to your article was meant to do. You may read further on the institute of polygamy in islam in the detailed discussion that occured on the forum some time back : http://www.sunniforum.com/forum/show...zwaaj-in-Islam

I am not a scholar, merely a Muslim sister who is striving to be better while trying to show the beauty of Islam. Please, if you see something that is incorrect, may Allah forgive us and let me know so that it may be corrected. Ameen, and I appreciate that you took the time to come on the forum to comment. I also hope that you will overlook some harsh comments from your fellow brethren and approach your discussion here as a means to learn more about Islam. We keep the same intention as well.

05-18-2012, 01:56 AM	#22
katetomson Join Date Oct 2005 Posts 519 Senior Member	As-Salaam Wa-Alaiykum, Many people when they hear of Muslims, or our religion of Islam; they automatically think of our deen as a faith that sponsors abuse of women, a religion which is intolerant; violent and masculine. Right now you are not helping dispel this false perception by your responses. Personally attacking someone is also wrong in Islam. As muslim brothers firstly, should you try to educate rather than agitate; at the end of the day we are here to learn from one another, and if I am wrong then I am wrong. Do not ever question my Imaan; because you are not my Judge, my judge is the Almighty. The response to your article was to clear out the misconceptions it would instigate to the masses. Not for a nano second did I judge your iman. Its not my place. But just for sake of education, should there be an incident where someone's iman is to be judged (obviously duty of a qualified Qadhi/Mufti etc), then it will have to be on the apparent. There is a hadith which quoted by fuqaha (Shawafi') which gives this ruling. "نحن نحكم بالظاهر والله يتولى السرائر" (i.e we give rulings according to the whats apparent and relinquish the secrets to Allah"). HENCE my article. IT’S NOT AN ATTACK ON MY FAITH, rather questions on why are we at this junction. Sister, the attack on the faith is inevitable when something established is misrepresented to the masses. The whole institution of 2nd marriage (3r and 4th) is as much established in deen as the first marriage. If someone does not fulfil the rights of the first marriage, which we continuously find that they do not in the many marital disputes that come to the Ulama, then does it seem appropriate to strike a comparison between marriage and keeping girlfriend? Ofcourse not! The two are complete separate issues, not to be compared. One is halal (even if its laws are not being fulfilled) while the other is outright haram and impermissible. The only way of halalifying the latter is to convert it to the first. So the comparison is completely unacceptable from the religious point of view. If you wish to engage people in jolting them to debate on why we are at this junction, then you can highlight the ills people do in the 2nd marriage and guide them to the solutions. Your article essentially demonized the whole concept of 2nd marriage. Definitely not the right way to tackle the ignorance of the issue. From the best of my knowledge and correct me if I am wrong The Holy Qur’an doesn’t give any man the liberty to just take wives for the sake of it. In short it does. Quran does give the man a right to take up a second wife. The ayah in the quran is "And if you fear that you shall not be able to deal justly with the orphan-girls, then marry (other) women of your choice, two or three, or four but if you fear that you shall not be able to deal justly (with them), then only one or (the captives and the slaves) that your right hands possess. That is nearer to prevent you from doing injustice..." The only condition Qur'an presented to the husband taking up multiple wives is to deal justly (adl). You have made a couple of point about it later in your post. InshAllah I will tackle it there. But essentially, if you look at the ayah it shows clearly that the amr (commanding verb) is being attributed first to 2 , then 3 then 4. And IF one is unable to fulfill that condition of justice, then he must do what Ayah mentions last (i.e marry only one). The is just a brief overview of the ayah. Under this ayah in Durr e Mansur Qatadah rahimahullah says that if you fear that you can't do justice with four, then marry three. If you can't do justice between three, then marry two and if you can't do justice between two then marry one. And if you can't do justice to One then stick to your slavewomen. While the above is one of the tafaseer but it shows how much importance was given to this norm of the culture. All I am saying is that SOME men have used the word of the Almighty to fit their own desires. That has been the case in many issues. Some women have used the same word of Allah and His Rasul to find justifications to shed their niqab, hijab etc. This does not mean that we display the whole institute of 2nd marriage as an ill. If you feel that 2nd marriage in time of Rasulullah (by his own practice) and by the practice of all the sahaba, was exactly how a 2nd marriage of today ought to be, then please edit your article and add in a paragraph giving praise to those who emulate that life of Rasulullah and sahaba. While you highlight the ills of society, also highlight that cure for many of other ills of the society lay in the sunnah of 2nd marriage as well. All that needs to be done is educate on how to conduct a 2nd marriage. That should be easier than demonising the 2nd marriage totally. Women were allowed to own property, vote, and considered equal with man, work and allowed the right of divorce. All correct except the last part. WOmen do not have the right of divorce. The do, however, have the right to "demand" a divorce. They may even negotiate this divorce through the Mahr which they received. This concept is called Khul`. During that period women couldn’t just go get a job or line up for welfare. Women in those times, and by "those times" we refer to time of Sahaba, were cared by their parents, brothers, husband, and Govt. They were more financially liberated than women today. Just as many men have left fulfilling the rules of polygamy due to ignorance, they have equally left fulfilling the rules of Wilaya (guardianship) over their subordinate women folk due to ignorance as well. We have brothers conning sisters for the inheritance, credit card thefts etc. Let alone take care of our sisters. So, women in those times had their assets and financial matter well taken care of than now. As for welfare, Sayiduna Umar time saw the best wellfare system, perhaps only to be followed by Umar bin Abd al Aziz r.a Hence polygamy was allowed to prevent fornication, adultery or prostitution; Please substantiate the above claim. I mentioned only one example of Sayiduna Uthman . What motives of fornication, adultery and prostitutions were there for Sayiduna Uthman to marry multiple wifes. History books show countless examples of female nobilities entering into polygynous relation. Why? Not because they feared poverty, adultery or prostitution. Maulana Taliban has posted this on the forum before : Hazrat Abu Bakr radiallahu anhu had 4 wives. Hazrat Umar radiallahu anhu married around approx 8 times Hazrat Usman radiallahu anhu married 8 times Hazrat Ali radiallahu anhu married 7 or 8 times. men who were spiritually, economically and mentally capable to marry more than one wife were encouraged to do so to protect the women. Again, without any substantiation the claim remains a mere claim. Even if you marry more than one wife, according to the Qur’an you must do justice by them all. What does justice mean in this context? It simply means what you do for one wife must be done for the others. If you buy one a house, car, jewellery or other item you must do the same for all otherwise you are being unjust. If we view this in modern day society with the high cost of living-we begin to see how impractical polygamy can be to a man. It is certainly not just for sex. The Adl which prescribed to be equal between one wives is in Shelter (feeding, clothing) and intimacy nights. What it does not mean is that if you buy a chappi for one then you must buy a chappi for the other too. It mean just like you have provided shelter and clothes for one, you provide shelter and clothing for the other too. وَأَمَّا عَلَى الْقَوْلِ الْمُفْتَى بِهِ مِنْ اعْتِبَارِ حَالِهِمَا فَلَا فَإِنَّ إحْدَاهُمَا قَدْ تَكُونُ غَنِيَّةً وَالْأُخْرَى فَقِيرَةً، فَلَا يَلْزَمُ التَّسْوِيَةُ بَيْنَهُمَا مُطْلَقًا فِي النَّفَقَةِ [الدر المختار وحاشية ابن عابدين (رد المحتار) 3/ 202] All I am trying to say, ADULTERY is WRONG, POLYGAMY is being misused, If that is what you intend to say then you really need to get people to review your articles before its published. Your article is no way close to that message. Instead of agression against me, rather help set the record straight so that all of us uphold the Tenets. That is exactly what the response to your article was meant to do. You may read further on the institute of polygamy in islam in the detailed discussion that occured on the forum some time back : http://www.sunniforum.com/forum/show...zwaaj-in-Islam I am not a scholar, merely a Muslim sister who is striving to be better while trying to show the beauty of Islam. Please, if you see something that is incorrect, may Allah forgive us and let me know so that it may be corrected. Ameen, and I appreciate that you took the time to come on the forum to comment. I also hope that you will overlook some harsh comments from your fellow brethren and approach your discussion here as a means to learn more about Islam. We keep the same intention as well.
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