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**remstaling** · 04-05-2012, 05:44 PM

- The authenticity of this hadith is disputed, but assuming it is sahih, it does not prove seeking help from the Prophet

in the least.

- The hadith has different riwayat, some with "Muhammad" and some with "Ya Muhammad."

- In either case, the harf al-nida' "ya" in Arab is not always use for literally calling out to someone. When the nida is used for someone or something who is not present, it is often done with the intention of visualizing that person or thing in one's heart (al-istihdhar fi al-qalb).

- This is similar to how in Pakistani culture, people call out to their mother in moments of pain or distress, not with the intention that she can hear them and come to their assistance, but as a means of comforting themselves by picturing their beloved mother.

- ibn `Umar (ra) merely said to mention the one whom he loved most, not to ask that person to cure his ailment.

- The Arabs of old used to view remembering a loved one as a means of curing numbness, because they thought that his would cause the blood to circulate more. You can find this fact in dozens of couplets. ( see al-Alusi's Bulugh al-Arab Fi Ma`rifat Ahwal al-`Arab)

- There are numerous, clear and unequivocal ayat and ahadith that prohibit beseeching other than Allah for assistance. As mentioned previously, this hadith is of disputed authenticity. Assuming that it is in fact sahih, it definitely does not prove istighathah, as was demonstrated above. Assuming that is is sahih and does in fact prove istighathah (which it clearly does not), then it is still an ahad narration. Check what the usul books of the Hanafis say about doing taqyid of mutlaq of the Qur'an or takhsis of 'aam of the Qur'an with hadith ahad. Also, check what the books of the Ash`aris/Maturidis say regarding ahadith ahad that contradict ayat of Qur'an, ahadith mutawatirah, or established principles of the deen. I acknowledge that some of the later ash`ari scholars did permit istighathah, but this seems to be in violation of their own principles.

- You will not find any scholar from the time of the salaf that permitted calling out to prophets and awliyah for help directly, especially not for curing an illness. As for tawassul, that is a different issue.

04-05-2012, 05:44 PM	#28
remstaling Join Date Oct 2005 Posts 442 Senior Member	- The authenticity of this hadith is disputed, but assuming it is sahih, it does not prove seeking help from the Prophet in the least. - The hadith has different riwayat, some with "Muhammad" and some with "Ya Muhammad." - In either case, the harf al-nida' "ya" in Arab is not always use for literally calling out to someone. When the nida is used for someone or something who is not present, it is often done with the intention of visualizing that person or thing in one's heart (al-istihdhar fi al-qalb). - This is similar to how in Pakistani culture, people call out to their mother in moments of pain or distress, not with the intention that she can hear them and come to their assistance, but as a means of comforting themselves by picturing their beloved mother. - ibn `Umar (ra) merely said to mention the one whom he loved most, not to ask that person to cure his ailment. - The Arabs of old used to view remembering a loved one as a means of curing numbness, because they thought that his would cause the blood to circulate more. You can find this fact in dozens of couplets. ( see al-Alusi's Bulugh al-Arab Fi Ma`rifat Ahwal al-`Arab) - There are numerous, clear and unequivocal ayat and ahadith that prohibit beseeching other than Allah for assistance. As mentioned previously, this hadith is of disputed authenticity. Assuming that it is in fact sahih, it definitely does not prove istighathah, as was demonstrated above. Assuming that is is sahih and does in fact prove istighathah (which it clearly does not), then it is still an ahad narration. Check what the usul books of the Hanafis say about doing taqyid of mutlaq of the Qur'an or takhsis of 'aam of the Qur'an with hadith ahad. Also, check what the books of the Ash`aris/Maturidis say regarding ahadith ahad that contradict ayat of Qur'an, ahadith mutawatirah, or established principles of the deen. I acknowledge that some of the later ash`ari scholars did permit istighathah, but this seems to be in violation of their own principles. - You will not find any scholar from the time of the salaf that permitted calling out to prophets and awliyah for help directly, especially not for curing an illness. As for tawassul, that is a different issue.
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