DiscussWorldIssues - Socio-Economic Religion and Political Uncensored Debate - View Single Post - Virtue of La howla wala quwatta illa billa

**km2000** · 04-04-2012, 06:13 PM

I do (it has actually gotten a little bit longer than a fist length...) but again, this is completely besides the point. If a brother without a beard objects to a scholar who doesn't have a beard, he has every right to because he is looking at the scholar for Islamic knowledge and him practicing upon the knowledge he has.

There are many sunnahs that I sometimes forget to do myself, such as reciting the du'a after waking up or drinking water in three breaths and countless others that I have heard of but forget to put into practice. But, if I found a shaykh who would habitually omit all these "little" things, it would raise some alarms in my head and I would probably avoid him since my imaan is too weak and frail - and I'd want someone who makes no compromises with the sunnah to be my guide.

The difference between an everyday layman being lax on the sunnah is understandable and thus it would be jaahil of me to rebuke him because I know that differences of opinion exist. But, if a scholar is taking the easy way out, we have every right to warn others about such a thing - even if ikhtilaaf exists. That is because there is certainty on a full beard being sunnah but there is doubt about the short beard or the trimmed beard. It is not something restricted to the Hanafi madhhab, though. All the madhahib recommend that the ideal beard is one that is left alone. What they specify as the mandatory or the required beard is where the difference of opinion exists. Amongst the Shafi'is, even stubble fulfills the requirement of a beard but it is still not the sunnah beard - how can anyone say that Rasoolullah or the sahaba had stubble on their faces only?

This is a completely different issue since both are evidenced from the sunnah - that one may still have wudhu after touching a woman or one may not. The same goes for other issues, such as the second sajdah of surah al-Hajj. There is proof from the sunnah for both sides of the issue and thus both sides can be followed as even the sahaba differed on this. On the other hand, the beard and various other sunnahs are confirmed and there do not exist any doubts about them. None of the ulama of the past or present have claimed that Rasoolullah had a short beard or that he trimmed it to a short length or shaved. The only evidence we have mentions only lengthening of the beard and we see confirmation of this command amongst the sahaba . We don't hear of sahaba ever shaving or cutting off their beards to less than a fist length.

I am not talking about any specific scholar. I don't even know the shaykh that this thread was started about. I am talking in general terms only. Furthermore, talking behind someone's back would entail talking about something that would normally be hidden, not something that is there for all to see. If a person does something unashamedly in public, it is not considered backbiting to warn against such a person. When it comes to where we seek knowledge from, the criteria is even more strict since our imaan is on the line.

Would any of us trust someone with our deen if that person wears silk or gold or partakes in riba or promotes anti-Islamic ideologies? Or even if one promotes minority opinions to accommodate for himself? A spiritual teacher has to be held to the strictest of standards because you're trusting this shaykh with the development of your imaan.

Also, I know of a few people that practice their deen in such a way that even though they are Hanafi, they do certain things so that all the madhahib are satisfied. For example, saying the tasmiyah before wudhu is compulsory in the Hanbali madhhab and these brothers have made it a point to say it before every wudhu, even though it is not obligatory upon them in the Hanafi madhhab. Even the knowledge that touching one's private parts can break one's wudhu for some non-Hanafis has been incorporated, in that once wudhu is made, a conscientious effort is made to not touch the private parts even by mistake or when one has finished performing ghusl. There are some things that you'll find amongst even the lay Hanafis, such as considering the entirety of the dog to be impure, including its hair - when only the saliva is considered impure. Of course in some issues, not all the madhahib can be satisfied since there is a clear difference but derived from the sunnah, such as saying "aameen" loudly or reciting al-Faatiha+surah behind the imam - in which case the adopted madhhab (Hanafi) is strictly adhered to in opposition to the other madhahib.

Brother, as usual, you seem to miss the point. If you agree that there are valid opinions that say that the shari'i beard is fulfilled by less than a fist length, then how can you say it is a doubtful matter? No one says that the Prophet salallahu alaihi wa salim had a short or even trimmed his mubarak beard. As you said we have proof of Sahabah trimming it to a fist length, but is there any proof that this is the limit? Do any Sahabah say that the beard can only be trimmed to a fist length, otherwise it is against shari'ah? No. If there were such sayings, it would be different. So some ulama said that trimming to a fist length is the limit, while others said trimming to whatever length is permissable, this is valid ikhtilaaf and no one can say otherwise. You can stand upon your opinion, but you can't call another person doubtful, since you could be wrong and they could be right.

As far as the wudu issue, yes there is evidence for both clearly, BUT even then the afdaal thing to do is try and fulfill all the positions of all the mathaahib (as you mentioned). But the beard length issue is NOT clear issue, since Rasulullah salallahu alaihi wa salim and the Sahabah radiyallah anhum did not specify the limits.

Anyway, it is a small matter, how about someone talk about pride or something that will really effect us. We can have a big beard but if we are too proud to take benefit from the ulama, how will this help us? Many people are saddly like this, myself included.

04-04-2012, 06:13 PM	#31
km2000 Join Date Oct 2005 Posts 419 Senior Member	I do (it has actually gotten a little bit longer than a fist length...) but again, this is completely besides the point. If a brother without a beard objects to a scholar who doesn't have a beard, he has every right to because he is looking at the scholar for Islamic knowledge and him practicing upon the knowledge he has. There are many sunnahs that I sometimes forget to do myself, such as reciting the du'a after waking up or drinking water in three breaths and countless others that I have heard of but forget to put into practice. But, if I found a shaykh who would habitually omit all these "little" things, it would raise some alarms in my head and I would probably avoid him since my imaan is too weak and frail - and I'd want someone who makes no compromises with the sunnah to be my guide. The difference between an everyday layman being lax on the sunnah is understandable and thus it would be jaahil of me to rebuke him because I know that differences of opinion exist. But, if a scholar is taking the easy way out, we have every right to warn others about such a thing - even if ikhtilaaf exists. That is because there is certainty on a full beard being sunnah but there is doubt about the short beard or the trimmed beard. It is not something restricted to the Hanafi madhhab, though. All the madhahib recommend that the ideal beard is one that is left alone. What they specify as the mandatory or the required beard is where the difference of opinion exists. Amongst the Shafi'is, even stubble fulfills the requirement of a beard but it is still not the sunnah beard - how can anyone say that Rasoolullah or the sahaba had stubble on their faces only? This is a completely different issue since both are evidenced from the sunnah - that one may still have wudhu after touching a woman or one may not. The same goes for other issues, such as the second sajdah of surah al-Hajj. There is proof from the sunnah for both sides of the issue and thus both sides can be followed as even the sahaba differed on this. On the other hand, the beard and various other sunnahs are confirmed and there do not exist any doubts about them. None of the ulama of the past or present have claimed that Rasoolullah had a short beard or that he trimmed it to a short length or shaved. The only evidence we have mentions only lengthening of the beard and we see confirmation of this command amongst the sahaba . We don't hear of sahaba ever shaving or cutting off their beards to less than a fist length. I am not talking about any specific scholar. I don't even know the shaykh that this thread was started about. I am talking in general terms only. Furthermore, talking behind someone's back would entail talking about something that would normally be hidden, not something that is there for all to see. If a person does something unashamedly in public, it is not considered backbiting to warn against such a person. When it comes to where we seek knowledge from, the criteria is even more strict since our imaan is on the line. Would any of us trust someone with our deen if that person wears silk or gold or partakes in riba or promotes anti-Islamic ideologies? Or even if one promotes minority opinions to accommodate for himself? A spiritual teacher has to be held to the strictest of standards because you're trusting this shaykh with the development of your imaan. Also, I know of a few people that practice their deen in such a way that even though they are Hanafi, they do certain things so that all the madhahib are satisfied. For example, saying the tasmiyah before wudhu is compulsory in the Hanbali madhhab and these brothers have made it a point to say it before every wudhu, even though it is not obligatory upon them in the Hanafi madhhab. Even the knowledge that touching one's private parts can break one's wudhu for some non-Hanafis has been incorporated, in that once wudhu is made, a conscientious effort is made to not touch the private parts even by mistake or when one has finished performing ghusl. There are some things that you'll find amongst even the lay Hanafis, such as considering the entirety of the dog to be impure, including its hair - when only the saliva is considered impure. Of course in some issues, not all the madhahib can be satisfied since there is a clear difference but derived from the sunnah, such as saying "aameen" loudly or reciting al-Faatiha+surah behind the imam - in which case the adopted madhhab (Hanafi) is strictly adhered to in opposition to the other madhahib. Brother, as usual, you seem to miss the point. If you agree that there are valid opinions that say that the shari'i beard is fulfilled by less than a fist length, then how can you say it is a doubtful matter? No one says that the Prophet salallahu alaihi wa salim had a short or even trimmed his mubarak beard. As you said we have proof of Sahabah trimming it to a fist length, but is there any proof that this is the limit? Do any Sahabah say that the beard can only be trimmed to a fist length, otherwise it is against shari'ah? No. If there were such sayings, it would be different. So some ulama said that trimming to a fist length is the limit, while others said trimming to whatever length is permissable, this is valid ikhtilaaf and no one can say otherwise. You can stand upon your opinion, but you can't call another person doubtful, since you could be wrong and they could be right. As far as the wudu issue, yes there is evidence for both clearly, BUT even then the afdaal thing to do is try and fulfill all the positions of all the mathaahib (as you mentioned). But the beard length issue is NOT clear issue, since Rasulullah salallahu alaihi wa salim and the Sahabah radiyallah anhum did not specify the limits. Anyway, it is a small matter, how about someone talk about pride or something that will really effect us. We can have a big beard but if we are too proud to take benefit from the ulama, how will this help us? Many people are saddly like this, myself included.
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