[km2000]

Let's continue this discussion in a manner that is sensible.

naqshbandiosmanli: clearly you are very emotional and you are making very unfair insinuations because of this. Please take some time out and come back to the discussion with a clear mind. About your point on Mawlana Gangohi (ra): I understand what you are saying about Adab. But, I think the point that is repeatedly being missed here, is the issue of ikhtilaf does not come into the beard discussion. Beard was kept by the Prophet and all the Sahabah (ra) and all the Prophets that Allah ta'ala ever sent.

People belittle the Zaahiri sunan, saying it is merely superficial, or it is not as bad as terrible Akhlaq. I think Ustadh abdulwahhab has given very clear responses and the points have been made thoroughly. A further point is the amount of time and effort that goes into trimming the beard - meaning a conscious decision has to be made regularly to stand before a mirror and go against the Sunnah. So do you not see how this is different to "leaving" a Sunnah - one thing is "leaving" and another is "opposing".

I do not want this discussion to be about Shaykh Babikr and trying to pinpoint his faults. Imagine if we were put in the same position. However, this is supposed to be a matter of principal and I am tempted to split this thread because of the benefit of the Shaykh's message is being lost. Anyone who wants, may confirm the beard question, his views on music and his views on segregation by contacting the respected Shaykh Babikir.

I agree I am very emotional. This is a dangerous thing, and I appreciate you pointing this out and reminding. I don't like it when people insinuate things against the ulama, and I am the same when people insinuate things against the Deobandi akabir. People are not fit to speak negatively about the ulama, and I don't know why people allow this.

As far as not making this about Shaikh Babikr, why brother did you make about him? I am asking this sincerely to you? Why cast doubt in people's minds about him, by questioning his status? Why not keep such things to yourself, ask Shaikh Babikr, go see him, sit with him, etc? This is all I want people to do; before they say anything negative or raise some suspicion about someone, first atleast tell about their good qualities. Your very first post, you say jazakallah khair for the video. It would have been better if you had stopped right there, but instead you added doubt and questions, you brought up a question mark upon the Shaikh, so now someone reading this thinks to themselves "maybe I should not listen to this person." Any benefit immediately is lost now, you bring up his beard, purdah issues, and music all in your first extremely brief post, and ask the question "is he really a spiritual master?" Why brother, I am sincerely asking you, why ask this? Brother I am crying right now it bothers me so much. You are a beautiful brother, you have done khidma for me and you don't even know it, I love you very much. But why bring up these things, and later say, I don't want this to be about Shaikh Babikr?

And the same I ask you my dear brother, no one here is saying there is ikhtilaaf in having a beard. No one has said this my dear brother, this is a sunnah of Rasulullah salallahu alaihi wa salim, but there is valid ikhtilaaf conerning what a beard is, how long it should be, should it be trimmed or not, etc. There is ikhtilaaf on this, and for you to say a person has to stand infront of a mirror and trim the beard, and this is knowingly going against the sunnah, brother trimming the beard is not against the sunnah, shaving yes ofcourse, but not trimming it. Please don't say this.

Please dear brother and ever other person, we are all Muslims, we are supposed to act a certain way and this is the most important, Rasulullah salallahu alaihi wa salim came to correct and perfect character, yes the beard is there, but we must act properly as well. Don't bring up things about this Shaikh or any other Shaikh that will cause regular people to be deprived of their benefit. So many people have lost a connection with the ulama, and when they see a scholar talking about following the orders of Allah, following and loving the Prophet salallahu alaihi wa salim, talking about the benefits of zikr, many people, who are very lay or don't have much connection to the deen will listen to this and could get benefit, but if other people immediately raise doubts about the scholar, and they may even be valid doubts, its like the open door for these lay people is shut because this person maybe can't be trusted. You know how Shaitan works, any waswas will lead people away from ulama, please my dear brother Rahmaniyya and all other brothers who have some knowledge, don't shut doors towards haqq by immediately raising objections and doubts. Sure, maybe we don't agree with everything that some ulama say, but not everyone that reads these things comes with that knowledge, many people are fresh and don't know, converts, born muslims away from deen trying to come back, and by raising such secondary questions, without any intention of actually asking the scholar in question, but rather just having a little back and forth, we give our points the other gives their points, then the thread fizzles out its not worth the risk of sending someone away with ill opinions. Always when I see a thread I'll see at the bottom of the page signed in members and then also guests. I try to think about these guests, maybe they are non-muslims who want to come to Islam, maybe they are are new converts trying learn something, or born muslims coming back to the deen, so what are they going to see? The majority of the time they will see objections, doubts raised, question marks, and this will get to a point that they either become like this, or get so frustrated by the pettiness that they turn elsewhere. We will regret it later, and like I said, speak highly of all Muslims FIRST, mention all there good points FIRST, and then if you really feel it is needed and there will be some benefit, raise doubts and questions.