DiscussWorldIssues - Socio-Economic Religion and Political Uncensored Debate - View Single Post - Virtue of La howla wala quwatta illa billa

**km2000** · 04-04-2012, 08:06 PM

You asked me a direct question so let me ask you one in return:

Would you trust a shaykh who delays all his salah without any appropriate reason? He actually makes an effort so that he ends up praying 'Fajr just before sunrise, prays Dhuhr just before 'Asr starts, prays Maghrib just before the redness of the sky disappears, prays 'Isha just before Fajr starts.

Is such a person worthy of being relied upon to guide you?

Also, you cannot say what is or isn't afdhal when it comes to the wudhu issue between the opinions of the madhaahib (unless one is a scholar) since both sides are proven from the Qur'an and the sunnah by the ulama of the madhaahib - so even refraining from doing something that Rasoolullah did (i.e. touching a woman after wudhu and then praying) can be considered going against the sunnah, albeit not makrooh.

And yes, the minimum length of the beard is an issue of ikhtilaaf but all the ulama are on a consensus that a full beard is the beard of Rasoolullah . To have a beard less than a fist length and consider it sunnah IS something that is doubtful. It may fulfill the requirement of a beard but it is most definitely not the sunnah beard - upon this, there is no ikhtilaaf. So, why go with the minimum when there is ikhtilaaf upon it and not go to the maximum, upon which there is no ikhtilaaf? The sufi avoids the doubtful matters as if they were haraam. The minimum length of the beard may be different amongst the various madhahib but the sunnah length is not. There is no ikhtilaaf on the sunnah length of the beard.

Salaam,

Ok to your question, if there was such a Shaikh that did that, I would not immediately think they have no reason, even though it may seem to me that they don't. I would make all efforts to ask them directly about it or get someone I know to ask. If they have a valid reason, and explain it I will accept it, I may not agree for myself, but I will accept it for them. If they say "I know that this is not good, but in this regard I am very weak, and I am trying to change" I would not hold this against them and I would not deprive myself of the beneficial things that they have; for example, if they had knowledge of tajweed, I would learn from them, if they held ta'lim of hadith, I would sit and listen, etc. I would not hold it against them because I can't see how I would benefit myself buy totally ignoring them and not taking the good that they have. I mean, I know people who have taking shahada from kuffaar, from shia, from qadianis, ismailis, etc, they became muslim through these people (and later became normal sunni Muslims), so I know that benefit can be found in many places.

I never said one or another mathaabs opinion was afdaal may friend, I said that I have been told by ulama that the afdaal stance is to try and fulfill the requirements of all the mathaahib in regards to wudu. So please don't put things to me that I did not say.

OK so here is the question: Does Shaikh Babikr or any of the other ulama consider that their short beards are sunnah, or that they are fulfilling the shari'i requirement? I assume, as we should, that the ulama know that there is no proof that the Prophet salallahu alaihi wa salim trimmed his beard (as far as I understand, and if I am wrong someone inform me please), fist length or other, so they would also know that by trimming it they are following the sunnah of Sahabah (which is great).

As far as you asking why go with the minimum and not the maximum, you should ask those ulama who do the minimum if you really want to know brother, please try and ask them. I personally don't know why, but I am not going say anything against them unless I have asked them, because maybe they have a perfectly good reason.

As to what a sufi avoids and so on, please, there or some people that think that a sufi must be like Abu Yazid Bistami (rah), who would only eat an almond in 40 days, and being zaahid even from the permissable things. The reality is we a sufi is supposed to be like Rasulullah salallahu alaihi wa salim in as many ways as Allah allows them to be, and one of the major things is to be lenient on others while being hard on your ownself. Dont scare people from the deen by making it hard, allow people to take the easiest valid opinion, otherwise people may completely go the other way. I have seen converts leave Islam because people made things too hard for them, and those people never thought they were doing anything wrong because they were calling towards the sunnah. This is not a simpleton's religion and humans are not cookie cutter people, everyone has their level. So perhaps people can see Shaikh Babikr and others and think, well I may not be able to have a huge, untrimmed beard, as it is difficult for me, but I can have something. We don't know why the shuyukh do the things they do and for what reason and how they bring people closer to the sunnah by apparently not fulfilling it. The only way we will know however, is if we ask them, and not discuss it to no end on an insignificant internet forum.

04-04-2012, 08:06 PM	#38
km2000 Join Date Oct 2005 Posts 419 Senior Member	You asked me a direct question so let me ask you one in return: Would you trust a shaykh who delays all his salah without any appropriate reason? He actually makes an effort so that he ends up praying 'Fajr just before sunrise, prays Dhuhr just before 'Asr starts, prays Maghrib just before the redness of the sky disappears, prays 'Isha just before Fajr starts. Is such a person worthy of being relied upon to guide you? Also, you cannot say what is or isn't afdhal when it comes to the wudhu issue between the opinions of the madhaahib (unless one is a scholar) since both sides are proven from the Qur'an and the sunnah by the ulama of the madhaahib - so even refraining from doing something that Rasoolullah did (i.e. touching a woman after wudhu and then praying) can be considered going against the sunnah, albeit not makrooh. And yes, the minimum length of the beard is an issue of ikhtilaaf but all the ulama are on a consensus that a full beard is the beard of Rasoolullah . To have a beard less than a fist length and consider it sunnah IS something that is doubtful. It may fulfill the requirement of a beard but it is most definitely not the sunnah beard - upon this, there is no ikhtilaaf. So, why go with the minimum when there is ikhtilaaf upon it and not go to the maximum, upon which there is no ikhtilaaf? The sufi avoids the doubtful matters as if they were haraam. The minimum length of the beard may be different amongst the various madhahib but the sunnah length is not. There is no ikhtilaaf on the sunnah length of the beard. Salaam, Ok to your question, if there was such a Shaikh that did that, I would not immediately think they have no reason, even though it may seem to me that they don't. I would make all efforts to ask them directly about it or get someone I know to ask. If they have a valid reason, and explain it I will accept it, I may not agree for myself, but I will accept it for them. If they say "I know that this is not good, but in this regard I am very weak, and I am trying to change" I would not hold this against them and I would not deprive myself of the beneficial things that they have; for example, if they had knowledge of tajweed, I would learn from them, if they held ta'lim of hadith, I would sit and listen, etc. I would not hold it against them because I can't see how I would benefit myself buy totally ignoring them and not taking the good that they have. I mean, I know people who have taking shahada from kuffaar, from shia, from qadianis, ismailis, etc, they became muslim through these people (and later became normal sunni Muslims), so I know that benefit can be found in many places. I never said one or another mathaabs opinion was afdaal may friend, I said that I have been told by ulama that the afdaal stance is to try and fulfill the requirements of all the mathaahib in regards to wudu. So please don't put things to me that I did not say. OK so here is the question: Does Shaikh Babikr or any of the other ulama consider that their short beards are sunnah, or that they are fulfilling the shari'i requirement? I assume, as we should, that the ulama know that there is no proof that the Prophet salallahu alaihi wa salim trimmed his beard (as far as I understand, and if I am wrong someone inform me please), fist length or other, so they would also know that by trimming it they are following the sunnah of Sahabah (which is great). As far as you asking why go with the minimum and not the maximum, you should ask those ulama who do the minimum if you really want to know brother, please try and ask them. I personally don't know why, but I am not going say anything against them unless I have asked them, because maybe they have a perfectly good reason. As to what a sufi avoids and so on, please, there or some people that think that a sufi must be like Abu Yazid Bistami (rah), who would only eat an almond in 40 days, and being zaahid even from the permissable things. The reality is we a sufi is supposed to be like Rasulullah salallahu alaihi wa salim in as many ways as Allah allows them to be, and one of the major things is to be lenient on others while being hard on your ownself. Dont scare people from the deen by making it hard, allow people to take the easiest valid opinion, otherwise people may completely go the other way. I have seen converts leave Islam because people made things too hard for them, and those people never thought they were doing anything wrong because they were calling towards the sunnah. This is not a simpleton's religion and humans are not cookie cutter people, everyone has their level. So perhaps people can see Shaikh Babikr and others and think, well I may not be able to have a huge, untrimmed beard, as it is difficult for me, but I can have something. We don't know why the shuyukh do the things they do and for what reason and how they bring people closer to the sunnah by apparently not fulfilling it. The only way we will know however, is if we ask them, and not discuss it to no end on an insignificant internet forum.
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