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**KeettyGlots** · 08-23-2009, 05:50 AM

My Old Imam Attempts to Reconvert Me

After a couple of years of leaving Islam, I ran into my old Imam. He was really disappointed that I had not kept in contact with him (at the same time he had no idea, that I left Islam). So I was between a rock and a hard place, I didn’t want to hurt his feelings in telling him that I left Islam (because I remember when I was a believer in Islam and close brother I knew had left Islam, and it made me feel something terrible, the worst feeling in the world at the time) while at the same time, I didn’t want to mislead him into thinking that I didn’t like him. I felt it was better to be straight up. In short I told him how I felt, Islam as it is taught today does not fit my world view. He invited me to dinner, and we had a long discussion, and he tried to re-convert me.

He doesn’t understand, that I was a real believer at the time, but I no longer in that frame of mind. I was neither scholar nor a student of knowledge but I am not ignorant of Islam. Of all the religious tradition that I’ve studied, from Islam, Christianity, Buddhism, Judaism, Hinduism etc etc, I’ve come to the conclusion that Hinduism fits closer to my world view.

Knowing that my old Imam is not well versed in Hinduism, I guess I should be fair and see what are the Islamic arguments against Hinduism from people who may be aware of this tradition.

-Hinduism is a pantheistic religion that claims that "God is all, and all is God." Now, beyond the arrogance of asserting that you're God, this also has numerous moral and theological weaknesses.

If everybody is essentially God, then individual morality essentially breaks down. Why not kill such and such? They're really me...so am I really doing anything wrong? Hindus attempted to overcome this issue with the idea of reincarnation. The problem with reincarnation though is that it's not really a punishment. The idea within Hinduism is that if you're bad, you'll be reborn as a fly or something; the problem with this though is that it assumes being a fly would be inherently bad. It may be blissful to be a being that has such little understanding of the world. It may not be; who knows? Is a fly even aware that its in a bad state or that it's being punished? I certainly don't have any recollection of any past life, so how exactly would a fly be aware of any past life and the punishment incurred during it? It's nonsensical. Not to mention that reincarnation also leads to numerous social ills such as caste stratification. The assumption behind this is that a noble, virtuous person would be reborn as someone wealthy, whereas a unvirtuous person would be born poor and lowly. Reincarnation, if taken to its logical extent, inherently leads to this mentality.

A better way to understand the relationship between the human and the divine is to think of Allah as a thinker, and we're the thought. The thinker isn't the thought, just as the thought isn't the thinker; they're related. The thought is wholly dependent on the thinker. If the thinker does not exist, then the thought cannot exist; the thought cannot be independent of the thinker, but the thinker can be independent of the though. Now, there are caveats to this. A thought doesn't think, but we--self evidently--do think. So it's more appropriate to liken our existence to what it is: a creation of Allah that has physicality and individuality (and depending on how well one's individual will aligns with the will of Allah, one will be rewarded or punished). The world isn't a mere illusion. It's illusory in nature, but it has a reality--a contingent reality (one that is wholly dependent on Allah for its existence).

And Allah knows best.

08-23-2009, 05:50 AM	#15
KeettyGlots Join Date Oct 2005 Posts 460 Senior Member	My Old Imam Attempts to Reconvert Me After a couple of years of leaving Islam, I ran into my old Imam. He was really disappointed that I had not kept in contact with him (at the same time he had no idea, that I left Islam). So I was between a rock and a hard place, I didn’t want to hurt his feelings in telling him that I left Islam (because I remember when I was a believer in Islam and close brother I knew had left Islam, and it made me feel something terrible, the worst feeling in the world at the time) while at the same time, I didn’t want to mislead him into thinking that I didn’t like him. I felt it was better to be straight up. In short I told him how I felt, Islam as it is taught today does not fit my world view. He invited me to dinner, and we had a long discussion, and he tried to re-convert me. He doesn’t understand, that I was a real believer at the time, but I no longer in that frame of mind. I was neither scholar nor a student of knowledge but I am not ignorant of Islam. Of all the religious tradition that I’ve studied, from Islam, Christianity, Buddhism, Judaism, Hinduism etc etc, I’ve come to the conclusion that Hinduism fits closer to my world view. Knowing that my old Imam is not well versed in Hinduism, I guess I should be fair and see what are the Islamic arguments against Hinduism from people who may be aware of this tradition. -Hinduism is a pantheistic religion that claims that "God is all, and all is God." Now, beyond the arrogance of asserting that you're God, this also has numerous moral and theological weaknesses. If everybody is essentially God, then individual morality essentially breaks down. Why not kill such and such? They're really me...so am I really doing anything wrong? Hindus attempted to overcome this issue with the idea of reincarnation. The problem with reincarnation though is that it's not really a punishment. The idea within Hinduism is that if you're bad, you'll be reborn as a fly or something; the problem with this though is that it assumes being a fly would be inherently bad. It may be blissful to be a being that has such little understanding of the world. It may not be; who knows? Is a fly even aware that its in a bad state or that it's being punished? I certainly don't have any recollection of any past life, so how exactly would a fly be aware of any past life and the punishment incurred during it? It's nonsensical. Not to mention that reincarnation also leads to numerous social ills such as caste stratification. The assumption behind this is that a noble, virtuous person would be reborn as someone wealthy, whereas a unvirtuous person would be born poor and lowly. Reincarnation, if taken to its logical extent, inherently leads to this mentality. A better way to understand the relationship between the human and the divine is to think of Allah as a thinker, and we're the thought. The thinker isn't the thought, just as the thought isn't the thinker; they're related. The thought is wholly dependent on the thinker. If the thinker does not exist, then the thought cannot exist; the thought cannot be independent of the thinker, but the thinker can be independent of the though. Now, there are caveats to this. A thought doesn't think, but we--self evidently--do think. So it's more appropriate to liken our existence to what it is: a creation of Allah that has physicality and individuality (and depending on how well one's individual will aligns with the will of Allah, one will be rewarded or punished). The world isn't a mere illusion. It's illusory in nature, but it has a reality--a contingent reality (one that is wholly dependent on Allah for its existence). And Allah knows best.
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