DiscussWorldIssues - Socio-Economic Religion and Political Uncensored Debate - View Single Post - Hindus can’t be dubbed ‘kafir’

**kertUtire** · 03-25-2012, 06:15 PM

I am not a scholar.

I have heard that the Arabic word Kafir can be used for a farmer because it literally means 'someone who covers up' and farmers cover up the seed when planting crops.

Covering up is a type of ignorance or lack of knowledge and awareness, we could say we (that is Muslims) have levels of ignorance and sometimes lose the awareness of Allah as the Only Power, Will and Strength. But ultimately we renew our eman with the testimony of the shahada.

People who are not Muslim have greater levels of ignorance than Muslims generally speaking, however some non Muslims may have a greater awareness of a God than some Muslims, though they are still classed as being 'kafir' by the shariah. Calling ignorant people kafir is counter productive, it sounds like a insult and is likely to put barriers up between people, so it is better not to use the word.

How do humans cover up the truth?

All of us are born in particular cultures and environments. Our personalities form and we pick up the cultural ways of our social environments, we develop cultural filters which make us believe our own truths....much of this is based on ignorance. So let us say we meet a Muslim when we are aged 20, who invites us to Islam, we may not hear what is being said because we are convinced that our way is right and Muslims are bad people who follow a violent religion. Muslims class non Muslims as not fully human and have a term for them. They refer to them as kafirs. A Muslim who is aware of this mindset would do well to appreciate this and adjust their message maybe refrain from using the word kafir until they have given knowledge (or removed the levels of ignorance).

Interesting points.

Brother, how much influence have Muslims had on India's media to date?
Very little? And if the media chooses to pidgeonhole and scapegoat Muslims as subhuman devils of the earth, what kind of contingency plans do Muslims have?

Is some temporary goodwill from secular Hindus able to sustain Muslim obligations and requirements, such as protection of Deen and family? For how long?

It may be a Hindu has greater insight into the human condition and shows more compassion and humanity to others than a poor illiterate Muslim farmer who abuses his family and commits crimes upon others. But why?

Why has a single Hindu of middle or upper class upbringing gained greater awareness than perhaps 10s of millions of Muslims, many of whom are suffering in poverty, illiteracy, economic and political servitude?

Is it because his humanist philosophies are championed by the government and the world powers, financed, protected by various source in India and abroad, while Muslim schools are plagued with underfunding, their philosophies are inconsistent and lacking, and Muslim leaders are continually accomodationists, making concessions, altering aspects of Islam, being reactionary and unaware?

Is humanism superior to modern Islamic thought in India?

Brothers, India is increasingly an encroaching enemy of the Muslim world. America intends to empower India over all of Asia as indicated in its military pacts and development plans. (This also is in line with Hindutva fantasies of re-erecting a Hindu military empire). India's funding of the Northern Alliance and backing of the Karzai govt has positioned India to gain regional influence in Afghanistan to the exclusion of Pakistan. This is done with the intent of preserving India's access to the Central Asian natural resources to fund its nuclear and miltiary development with America's guidance.
To grant India that access, through Pakistan no less, is to empower India to be a regional power over Arabia and Asia.

India's export of human resources throughout Arabia serves to position millions of secular and nationalist oriented Indians throughout the Muslim world, with countless operatives building connections, gaining access to positions and restricting them for Hindus exclusively. I have personally seen and many will attest, Hindus get in a management position and try to force out all others to be replaced with Hindus, or subordinate secular Indian Muslims. And that's another thing, Indian nationalism holds greater weight to many Indian Muslims that Islamic identity so that they prefer to associate with Hindus who might have influence in their community than Muslims.

If India has designs to dominate nearby Muslim countries like they already dominate Bangledesh and Sri Lanka, what role should Muslims of India play in that?

03-25-2012, 06:15 PM	#27
kertUtire Join Date Oct 2005 Posts 392 Senior Member	I am not a scholar. I have heard that the Arabic word Kafir can be used for a farmer because it literally means 'someone who covers up' and farmers cover up the seed when planting crops. Covering up is a type of ignorance or lack of knowledge and awareness, we could say we (that is Muslims) have levels of ignorance and sometimes lose the awareness of Allah as the Only Power, Will and Strength. But ultimately we renew our eman with the testimony of the shahada. People who are not Muslim have greater levels of ignorance than Muslims generally speaking, however some non Muslims may have a greater awareness of a God than some Muslims, though they are still classed as being 'kafir' by the shariah. Calling ignorant people kafir is counter productive, it sounds like a insult and is likely to put barriers up between people, so it is better not to use the word. How do humans cover up the truth? All of us are born in particular cultures and environments. Our personalities form and we pick up the cultural ways of our social environments, we develop cultural filters which make us believe our own truths....much of this is based on ignorance. So let us say we meet a Muslim when we are aged 20, who invites us to Islam, we may not hear what is being said because we are convinced that our way is right and Muslims are bad people who follow a violent religion. Muslims class non Muslims as not fully human and have a term for them. They refer to them as kafirs. A Muslim who is aware of this mindset would do well to appreciate this and adjust their message maybe refrain from using the word kafir until they have given knowledge (or removed the levels of ignorance). Interesting points. Brother, how much influence have Muslims had on India's media to date? Very little? And if the media chooses to pidgeonhole and scapegoat Muslims as subhuman devils of the earth, what kind of contingency plans do Muslims have? Is some temporary goodwill from secular Hindus able to sustain Muslim obligations and requirements, such as protection of Deen and family? For how long? It may be a Hindu has greater insight into the human condition and shows more compassion and humanity to others than a poor illiterate Muslim farmer who abuses his family and commits crimes upon others. But why? Why has a single Hindu of middle or upper class upbringing gained greater awareness than perhaps 10s of millions of Muslims, many of whom are suffering in poverty, illiteracy, economic and political servitude? Is it because his humanist philosophies are championed by the government and the world powers, financed, protected by various source in India and abroad, while Muslim schools are plagued with underfunding, their philosophies are inconsistent and lacking, and Muslim leaders are continually accomodationists, making concessions, altering aspects of Islam, being reactionary and unaware? Is humanism superior to modern Islamic thought in India? Brothers, India is increasingly an encroaching enemy of the Muslim world. America intends to empower India over all of Asia as indicated in its military pacts and development plans. (This also is in line with Hindutva fantasies of re-erecting a Hindu military empire). India's funding of the Northern Alliance and backing of the Karzai govt has positioned India to gain regional influence in Afghanistan to the exclusion of Pakistan. This is done with the intent of preserving India's access to the Central Asian natural resources to fund its nuclear and miltiary development with America's guidance. To grant India that access, through Pakistan no less, is to empower India to be a regional power over Arabia and Asia. India's export of human resources throughout Arabia serves to position millions of secular and nationalist oriented Indians throughout the Muslim world, with countless operatives building connections, gaining access to positions and restricting them for Hindus exclusively. I have personally seen and many will attest, Hindus get in a management position and try to force out all others to be replaced with Hindus, or subordinate secular Indian Muslims. And that's another thing, Indian nationalism holds greater weight to many Indian Muslims that Islamic identity so that they prefer to associate with Hindus who might have influence in their community than Muslims. If India has designs to dominate nearby Muslim countries like they already dominate Bangledesh and Sri Lanka, what role should Muslims of India play in that?
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