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**tsamprasxx** · 03-09-2012, 04:32 AM

al-Salamu 'Aleykum,

Liberal, Democratic Muslims and other types, are considered Muslims until they display something that constitutes Kufr and insist on it after truth has been revealed to them, an example:

A Muslims said: "We need a democratic government, we're sick of this tyranny!"

I asked: "What do you mean by democratic government?"

He said: "Freedom"

I asked: "From what?"

He replied: "From the corrupt tyrants that steal our money and take away our rights and block us from changing our rotten conditions."

As you can see, I can't jump and say "You're a Kaffir!" the man after all is a Muslim who prays and he never said anything that opposes Islam or Shari'ah. So what do we conclude? we conclude that when 99% of Muslim laymen say they want "Democracy" they don't mean anything other than "Freedom" and as you know Freedom is a part of Islam and does not conflict with it.

So "Democratic Muslims" and "Liberal Muslims" are just like the Shia, you can't make Takfeer on them unless you know what the heck they believe in exactly and how they define "Democracy" and so on...

(I do not say they are correct, the only thing we should ask for is an Islamic Government nothing else)

A lot of the modernist/liberal/progressive Muslims are against Shari'ah. For example, here in Canada, there was a group that launched protests against the civil Shari'ah courts. The Jews and Christians were already having their personal and civil issues arbitrated by religious courts, whether they be based on Catholic canonical laws or Jewish Halakhic laws. When the Muslims wanted something similar, these progressive "Muslims" came out of the woodwork and launched protests against this. There are many progressive "Muslims" who are against the hijab. There are many progressive "Muslims" who speak out against hadd punishments, calling the divine commandments as "barbaric". There are many "progressive" Muslims who vouch for homosexuality and call anyone who opposes it as backwards.

03-09-2012, 04:32 AM	#19
tsamprasxx Join Date Oct 2005 Posts 468 Senior Member	al-Salamu 'Aleykum, Liberal, Democratic Muslims and other types, are considered Muslims until they display something that constitutes Kufr and insist on it after truth has been revealed to them, an example: A Muslims said: "We need a democratic government, we're sick of this tyranny!" I asked: "What do you mean by democratic government?" He said: "Freedom" I asked: "From what?" He replied: "From the corrupt tyrants that steal our money and take away our rights and block us from changing our rotten conditions." As you can see, I can't jump and say "You're a Kaffir!" the man after all is a Muslim who prays and he never said anything that opposes Islam or Shari'ah. So what do we conclude? we conclude that when 99% of Muslim laymen say they want "Democracy" they don't mean anything other than "Freedom" and as you know Freedom is a part of Islam and does not conflict with it. So "Democratic Muslims" and "Liberal Muslims" are just like the Shia, you can't make Takfeer on them unless you know what the heck they believe in exactly and how they define "Democracy" and so on... (I do not say they are correct, the only thing we should ask for is an Islamic Government nothing else) A lot of the modernist/liberal/progressive Muslims are against Shari'ah. For example, here in Canada, there was a group that launched protests against the civil Shari'ah courts. The Jews and Christians were already having their personal and civil issues arbitrated by religious courts, whether they be based on Catholic canonical laws or Jewish Halakhic laws. When the Muslims wanted something similar, these progressive "Muslims" came out of the woodwork and launched protests against this. There are many progressive "Muslims" who are against the hijab. There are many progressive "Muslims" who speak out against hadd punishments, calling the divine commandments as "barbaric". There are many "progressive" Muslims who vouch for homosexuality and call anyone who opposes it as backwards.
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