DiscussWorldIssues - Socio-Economic Religion and Political Uncensored Debate - View Single Post - Muslim apologetics ! Islam NEEDS it today or else . . . !!!!!!!!!

**ulnanVti** · 02-12-2012, 07:19 PM

Salam Alaykum,

I agree that comparatively small disputes concerning delicate Fiqhi matters are strange for those Muslims who see the disasters that are taking place in the field of Muslims vs. non-Muslims.

However, there are some issues that are of importance when discussing with certain groups. For example, when it comes to Qur'an-only people, their objections have to be studied deeply because we have to learn to appreciate how knowledge is transmitted in Islam, and what is the level of correctness of the reports we have from the Prophet (SAW), and how it relates to deducing rulings and the fundamentals of belief in Islam. Also, when it comes to Twelver Shias, we have to really stress the same matter we have with Quranists, since they live in a conspiracy-driven world where information passed by person to person is more believable that contradicting evidence from masses of people transmitting to other masses of people.

Also of importance are the discussions we have with the anthropomorphists hiding amongst the Muslims, since many times their arguments are basically the same as those of Hindus, Christians, etc., and at the very least we would learn how to refute the supposed "Islamic evidence" they may bring forth on anthropomorphism.

I 75% agree with you.

I agree that fiqhi issues need to be left well alone aswell as the taqleed vs ghayr taqleed debate which both sides arent as different as people think and its an issue to leave people to do what they choose either way.

I agree that serious deviations that fall into kufr need to be dealt with such as ithna ashariyyah and qur'aaniyyoon because kufr is a serious threat to the ummah right now and that includes major deviations which we should protect ourselves and families from. Same goes for qadianis, haqqanis etc.

But the one thing i disagree with is the anthromorphist bit. Reasin being, if someone is a genuine anthromorphist, i.e. They say allah looks like a human being, big beard, walks around etc like the christians, this is kufr and needs to be dealt with, but doesnt exist in our times.

Salafis arent upon kufr and the major deobandi ulema never made takfeer of the salafis and their position has generally been very warm to the salafis so we shud only refute groups which the kibaar ulema made takfeer of.

I havent seen one group in existence today whom the kibaar ulema made takfeer of on the basis of tajsim, tamtheel etc, and usually this accusation is one that laymen use to justify attacking salafis. Ironically those same people scream the importance of taqleed of ulema till the cows come home. The really ironic thing is, the madkhali salafis have been the ones who attach themselves to the ulema in practice the most out of all groups and will never preceed ulema on an issue, whilst many taqleed proponents are only giving lip service whilst i notice them say whatever they feel like in reality with no consultation with the ulema first.

So i agree with the need to refute serious deviations, but dont think salafis shud be included in that category unless the ulema preceed you in that. They have made takfeer of quranis, qadiyanis etc so its essential these groups are refuted as they are a cancer to the ummah and becoming one of these is no different to becoming an outright murtad, maybe they are even more dangerous because of their disguising themselves as muslim, same goes for secularists etc

02-12-2012, 07:19 PM	#4
ulnanVti Join Date Oct 2005 Posts 564 Senior Member	Salam Alaykum, I agree that comparatively small disputes concerning delicate Fiqhi matters are strange for those Muslims who see the disasters that are taking place in the field of Muslims vs. non-Muslims. However, there are some issues that are of importance when discussing with certain groups. For example, when it comes to Qur'an-only people, their objections have to be studied deeply because we have to learn to appreciate how knowledge is transmitted in Islam, and what is the level of correctness of the reports we have from the Prophet (SAW), and how it relates to deducing rulings and the fundamentals of belief in Islam. Also, when it comes to Twelver Shias, we have to really stress the same matter we have with Quranists, since they live in a conspiracy-driven world where information passed by person to person is more believable that contradicting evidence from masses of people transmitting to other masses of people. Also of importance are the discussions we have with the anthropomorphists hiding amongst the Muslims, since many times their arguments are basically the same as those of Hindus, Christians, etc., and at the very least we would learn how to refute the supposed "Islamic evidence" they may bring forth on anthropomorphism. I 75% agree with you. I agree that fiqhi issues need to be left well alone aswell as the taqleed vs ghayr taqleed debate which both sides arent as different as people think and its an issue to leave people to do what they choose either way. I agree that serious deviations that fall into kufr need to be dealt with such as ithna ashariyyah and qur'aaniyyoon because kufr is a serious threat to the ummah right now and that includes major deviations which we should protect ourselves and families from. Same goes for qadianis, haqqanis etc. But the one thing i disagree with is the anthromorphist bit. Reasin being, if someone is a genuine anthromorphist, i.e. They say allah looks like a human being, big beard, walks around etc like the christians, this is kufr and needs to be dealt with, but doesnt exist in our times. Salafis arent upon kufr and the major deobandi ulema never made takfeer of the salafis and their position has generally been very warm to the salafis so we shud only refute groups which the kibaar ulema made takfeer of. I havent seen one group in existence today whom the kibaar ulema made takfeer of on the basis of tajsim, tamtheel etc, and usually this accusation is one that laymen use to justify attacking salafis. Ironically those same people scream the importance of taqleed of ulema till the cows come home. The really ironic thing is, the madkhali salafis have been the ones who attach themselves to the ulema in practice the most out of all groups and will never preceed ulema on an issue, whilst many taqleed proponents are only giving lip service whilst i notice them say whatever they feel like in reality with no consultation with the ulema first. So i agree with the need to refute serious deviations, but dont think salafis shud be included in that category unless the ulema preceed you in that. They have made takfeer of quranis, qadiyanis etc so its essential these groups are refuted as they are a cancer to the ummah and becoming one of these is no different to becoming an outright murtad, maybe they are even more dangerous because of their disguising themselves as muslim, same goes for secularists etc
	Quote