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Some relevant quotes from Shaykh Dr. Mansur 'Ali on this very forum:

"Assalamualikum, Dear all, my name is Mansur Ali, yes the centre of this debate, I see that a lot of misinformation is being exchanged.

First of all I would like to say to brother pehlawan khan, that getting admittance into Al-azhar has nothing to do with the level of knowledge one has. As rightly mentioned by soofi saheb, it’s to do with the nature of the relationship between your institution and Al-azhar.

Darul Uloom Bury had a muadala (equivalence) with Al-azhar from 1986 to 2004. I was lucky enough to get in. Now it has expired, however, we are in the process of renewing the contract.

The reason we get admitted in the 3rd year is because a lot of the books taught at alazhar are not taught in Darul Uloom Bury. Books related to the auxiliary sciences of hadith, therefore we have to study those subjects. I am not the only one to have gone through this system, scholars the likes of Dr. Chandia also had to enter into the 3rd year.

From my experience I would say that a graduate of Darul Uloom is of the level of an MA student at al-azhar and no further. This can be consolidated by the fact that students from nadwatul ulaama and some students from Bangladeshi madaris get into the MA program, because their madaris has incorporated into the syllabus some of the subjects that are taught at the upper BA level at al-Azhar.

The MA at al-azhar is very intense with a pass rate of only 25%, the amount of work that they make you do and the research methodology that they teach you cannot be compared with any darse nizaami system. They teach you how to do independent research on hadith, meaning how to come to your own conclusion concerning the strength of a hadith. They teach you how to edit manuscripts. This is not taught in the darsee nizaami system. Very few ulama from the darse nizaami system know how to edit manuscripts or do dirasatul asanid, the few notables who are able to do this are Maulana Habibur Rahman Azami, Maulana Taqi Uddin Nadawi, Maulana Mustafa Azami, Maulana Diyaur Rahman Azami, however, all of these ulama have doctorate degrees from al-azhar University.

This does not mean that I am condescending the darse nizaami, the darse nizaami is a very good system in the sense that they give you a taste of all the different disciplines in Islam, it is up to an individual to then go and further his knowledge. There is no comparison between a 3rd year Azhar student and a Darul Uloom Graduate. At al-azhar when we were studying the philosophical thoughts of Imam Ghazzali, most of the students thought it was quantum physics, because they were never introduced to this level of knowledge before, however for us it was a piece of cake, especially after studying sharh Aqaid an-Nasafi. Also it is true, the in the darsee nizaami system we get to read much more hadith than the azhar system, however, the azhar system has taught me to how to do systematic research in hadith.

As far as great ulama like mufti Abdur Rahman are concerned, and I personally know Mufti saheb because I found him as a student at darul uloom Bury, and I also got the privilege of putting the irab vowels on his book zaad ut talibin, then such scholars like him can be put on the doctorate level, because of their talent, knowledge and command over the language.

Just to answer brother idrees, it does not matter where you study as long as you put the effort in. I know some students who graduated from Darul Ulooms, but to our utter shame, these guys can’t even read the quran by looking into the mushaf.

As far as sheikh Faraz's article is concerned then I can guarantee that it is irrelevant to Al-azhar University, because although al-azhar University has tables and chairs and has become modernized, it is still one of the most t prestigious universities in the world for traditional Islam, the same adaab are taught in the class. The teachers care for the students, the students have the uttermost respect for the teachers and so on. The sheikh’s article is relevant to the western universities where Islam is taught. Where authority is not highly praised, on the contrary originality is esteemed.

As far as the memorization is concerned, then at al-azhar it is a requirement for every Arab student that by the time they graduate with a BA they should have become hafiz of the quran, and for none Arab students it’s the first 8 Juz. Few subjects such as hadith mawdui, hadiths need to be memorised, that’s about it. Also the Doctors teach their own books, however these books are simplified and extended versions of primary sources. However, this is not to say that classical sources are not studied, in MA in the faculty of Hadith, a critical analysis is done of the classical sources.

To brother Omar, I would like to advice that if you decide to take Islamic studies at a western university, then please make sure the foundation of you religious knowledge is firm, because the university system is very devious in the name of scholarship, take this advice from some one who has studied at a British university. You can take the few good things that they teach such as research techniques.

hope this answers some of the questions, take care everyone wassalam "

"Br. Mansy, Jazakillah for the clarification, it was most enlightening.

Just a question: At al-azhar is the female university seperate to the males? And are the teachers female teachers too? Do you have any idea of the quality of education on the female side?
Assalamualaikum sister, jazakillah for your query. Yes the female section is completly segregated. In fact it is 3 miles away from the main boys campus. (The main Islamic campus is in Darrasa [Islamic Cairo] where as the girls campus is in Nasar City 3 miles away). Yes all the teachers are female. However I have seen female students taking private lessons (in the public Al-azhar library) with some of the elder shuyukhs, like our teacher and hadith master Sheikh Dr. Mustapha Abu Umara.

As for the quality of education then I can't really give you any informed knowledge, however I did come across few exceptional PhD theses written by some of the female PhD students from Al-Azhar. hope that partially answers your question
sorry
wassalam "

"Assalamualaikum, brothers and sisters. Just few questions. Have anyone of you studied at al-Azhar? Have anyone of you studied at al-Azhar and a darse nizaami madrasa aswell? have the ulama whom you have quoted (Mufti Nawal saheb) studied at al-Azhar? If the answers are no, then your opinions are not informed. You can only make an informed opinion if you have studied in both the places. Please do not make comments about something you have no knowledge and experience of, intellectual tiptoeing is not healthy.

@ brother Yahya bahi, You were not given access to the uni not because of your beard and attire, but because you weren't a student. Even when i forgot my student ID once or twice i was not granted access (although the guard knew me). Also the security is very tight during exam times. Whats wrong with that?

About the mosque courtyard being dirty when it rains, well it is outside! and how many times does it rain in Egypt? FYI the mosque gets cleaned twice daily.

The only sad thing is the clothing of the students which you pointed out, well let me tell you the situation in Egypt. Al-Azhar is the only uni in Egypt which is free (at least islamic studies are). Most of the students studying there are from poor background who really have no interest in Islam. The only reason they study at al-Azhar is because if they didn't study they will have to serve in the Army for 4 years. Al-Azhar being the only uni free is their one and only escape route.
The serious student, studying for deen comes in the traditional islamic dress. Also every Arab student who graduates from Al-Azhar is a Hafiz of the Quran, no exception. For the non-Arabs its only the first 8 juz. How many madrasas can boast that. Students who don't want to even study islam are forced into becoming huffaz, if thats not the case, its four years in the army. You will also be suprised to hear that most of the people in Egypt look down upon at al-Azhar, not because it is Islamic, or it has produced non-traditional scholars, but because it is the uni for the poor and lower class of egyptian society. Hope things are more clear to you
wassalam

Maulana Mansur Ali
Certificate in Islamic Studies (Darul Uloom Bury)
BA in Hadith studies (Al-Azhar University)
MA in Hadith Studies (University of Manchester)
PhD In Hadith studies (pending, University of Manchester)
Lecturer of Arabic and Islamic studies (University of Manchester)

p.s i'm not bragging, just making a point. "

"Brother Yahya I'm not going to argue with you. You made a point, I also made a point, just to show to the rest of the brothers and sisters that there are two sides to this coin.

Brother Mospike, I will tell you about one teacher of ours. His name is Allama Musa Shahin Lashin. He is the author of Fathul Mun'im sharh sahih Muslim (which he wrote in 22 years). This commentary is one of the best i have seen, it caters for the need of the normal person as well as the scholars'.

The Sheikh is retired now, and is known by the name of ustaadh al-asaathidha or sometimes sheikh al-kull. Out of the many things that he told us, we asked him about how he spends his time. He replied that every day he writes a minimum of 15 hours..subhanallah. At the moment he is doing some new research into sahih al-Bukhari, something the sheikh says that no one has done before and he is the first one. what the nature of this work is, then it is a bit too technical (i don't want to go into it).

Thats all for now, i may tell you about some of my other teachers some other times inshallah.

wassalam
Mansur "

"Depends what you define as wrong, it also depends on what platform you stand. For example a deobandi might find a barelwi fatwa regarding the Prophet to be wrong and vice versa.

You have to understand that alot of the fataawa that comes out from the research centre of Al-Azhar are an attempt to facillitate and make things easy for the people of today, even if that means that they have to go against the 4 madhhabs. Sheikh Ali Jumma (chief Mufti of Egypt and a great scholar) says that we try not to go out of the 4 madhhabs, but when it is necessary then we do digress from the madhhabs and may give a fatwa according to the opinions of Ibn Hazam (al-Madkhal fi al-Madhaahib, page ?? someone is borrowing my book at the moment therefore i can't confirm the page). Now this looks wrong according to the ulama who believe that it is not jaa'iz to go out of the madhhab. And obviously the fatwa based on this mode of thinking will also be wrong. A very good example is Dr Yusuf al-Qaradawi who has been heavily criticised recently. But the criticiser is on one platform and the sheikh is on another platform, therefore they will never see eye to eye. Hope that makes sense.

wassalam.
Mansur "