[greekbeast]

Sciences prove to us that a person is born with chromosomes and when one chrosomes is more than the other a person is born a male or a female or both with male and female dispositioning. Males may have tendencies of feminism and females have tendencies of masculinity. Some men are born Macho some are not. Some women are born feminine some are not. Being gay is not a new phenomenon it has been since humanity. Gays are in every country, let not anyone say otherwise. Didn't, god say he created you whichever way he wanted. Be and it will be. Everyone will have their account on the day. To each his own grave.

There is NO genetic imposition called "gay" like genes impose skin color.
"GAY" is a political concept, used to manipulate others into accepting abhorrent conduct.

There are no "GAY" people, as if they are separate, distinct group of people-an ethnicity or such.

The REAL issue, the fundamental concept, is the decriminalization of sexual activity outside or marriage.

First, this originates with Western leadership of the world. So its idiosyncratic.
In the West, modernists were struggling with Western traditions and religions, namely Christianity and Judaism.
Part of their struggle was against the social constructs of these ways.
Decriminalizing any and all such activity, except nonconsensual, was the goal and achievement of secularists, atheists, liberals, as part of their "modernity". It was deemed as 'liberating'.
To be modern, humanity MUST abandon any and all moral standards regarding sexual conduct.
Tradition and religion had to be abandoned because they were deemed backwards, restricting, oppressive, unjust. At times they were and at times they weren't. but to end this cycle, they cut all of it away.


And part of modernity included giving new identities to people: forming nationalities, granting people rights to form new organizations, and then of course, allowing people to form identities based on whichever grouping they so choose, such as gay.

In reality, its about men who have deviant desires which they want to practice unencumbered by others.
Yes, in the past these men were either highly secret, highly exclusive, or secretly done by elites (king Richard of England was seen as engaging in "gay" sex as were many other elites, such as king Alexander of Greece).

Today, as part of "modern life", these secretive men demanded rights, and as secular civil society has no objection, they became an accepted group of society, gaining more and more power, more and more influence today, so that they are now surpassing actual ethnic and racial minorities.

But Muslims have not had with Islam the same conflict as Western societies did with Christianity and Judaism.
Islam has been just and prior to colonial wars, Muslims did not have these same problems.

Muslims have to hold to our own Deen. The explanation of the ruling in Islam provided by Amr was very clear and explanatory.



So in response to Ahlam's inquiry, there are no 'gay' people. There are people who choose to perform abhorrent conduct and have succeeded in removing judgement of their conduct. And their secular society has failed to correct them.
People choose their sexual conduct- sexual conduct is NOT forced upon by genes or by 'orientation'.



In that sense, those who commit major sins but recognize that conduct as sinful, and repent, still can be seen as Muslim.

But fuqaha have addressed this matter that those who commit major sins, rejecting that their conduct is sinful, publicly demanding that others accept their conduct, they are outside of Islam. Part of returning to Islam is accepting Allah (SWT) as God and Lord Who reveals what is right and wrong.

And Allah knows best.