[Smabeabumjess]

Assalam O Alaikum Sister,

Br. Abuhajira, I will send this information to Mufti Ibrahim Desi through www.askimam.org to correct his fatwa on whey powder. Any Ulema can go to our websites www.muslimconsumergroup.com or www.canadianhalalfoods.com for technical information or can write to me at halalfoods@hotmail.com

Please use the alinaam@alinaam.org.za for sending any research or emails to Mufti Saheb. Inshallah it will reach him.

Br Abuhajira honestly do you go to a Mufti or to a doctor for curing the disease and doctors make decisions based on their education and experience. When doctors can make decision whey not a food scientist make decision on food products which he or she deals every day. No I do not.. but if I have to know whether a certain treatment is shar'an acceptable in shariah.. the doctor is no help to me. I have to take a Mufti's qawl on it. Just in the other thread someone asked if Transvaginal ultrasound breaks a fast. Which doctor will have that information if not a Mufti.

Why do you have to rest the decision making on the food scientist, when he is not aware of the religious implications? Just like you are not aware of the complete usools of deen, we cannot expect you, even with your intensive knowledge of food, to know what became impermissible when. Or what became permissible when.. This is why you, based on your own limited knowledge, completely ignored a major opinion within the madhab, and stuck to your own limited understanding of deen. While the decision made by the Ulama I have mentioned above regarding ethyl alcohol, is sound within the usools without blemish.

I agree Islamic scholars has the more knowledge of Sharia than a common muslim. As I said before a food scientist can take the advise of Islamic scholars if he does not know the impact from religious point of view on food products. Nope you didnt, you side stepped a mufti's right to rule a fatwa and handed it to a food scientist. Please read your own posts again.. I have even pointed out three instances where you have said it clearly and openly.. and you will say it again before the end of this paragraph.

When a Marketing manager sends out a group of information seekers in the market.. and these seekers go around the country gathering information from the field market itself. After data gathering, who has more knowledge of the market.. the manager OR the information seekers? Obviously the knowledge of the core market is with those in the market.. but the manager knows how to utilize that information in conformity with the marketing strategy at hand, and the mission statement of the company being run. Such the is the situation here.. you as a food scientist are an information seeker.. a specialist within the bounds of learning food types, its intricacies and inner workings... you collect and research the data and then supply it to your managers.. i.e the Ulama. The understand the strategy and the company principles more than you because their speciality lays there. Using your data they will form a marketing decision(fatwa) which will help attain the goals of the company (fulfiling the rules of sharia).

This is as easy and ilustrated I could make it for you.. if you do not understand.. then it is not a fault within me.

The food products which do not require advise from Islamic scholars because of its simplicity, he or she can make the judgement on its Halal status based on Quran, Hadith and science. Those food products which do not require any guidance.. are yet sought guidance about.. What do you want the mufti to say when he is asked about a food question.. "errr.. sorry we dont deal with halal haram.. kindly contact dr so and so" ? Br. be realistic.. masses in the ummah trust the Ulama and Muftiyaan much more than they trust the secular doctors. Yes, your research is all good.. but that does not guarantee that your decision on all islamic issues related to food will be correct too. Yes , go ahead give advice.. no one is stoping you.. but do not do so in the guise of "Fatwa".

I do not agree that a food science is a information source. Please do not follow jewish laws for example which requires only Sachet (A Rabbi who slaughter animal) can slaughter animals not a common Jew. As thorny as it may feel in your throat, but its the truth.. that the right for fatwa is for a Mufti ... Do you not see he is called Mufti for this very reason. And any and every muslim can slaughter provided it is done by the rules of Sharii Zabeeha and not food science..

There are certain area where Islamic scholars only can make decision not a common muslim. Yes please enumerate for us how limited and restricted your view of the Muftiyaan is.. what is "certain area" which you have generously allowed a mufti to make decisions for..

Yes, I agree all professional(docters, engineer, food scientist, chemists) can give the Halal status based on Quran, Hadith and science. I do not have any hidden objective for this discussion, I am eduacting Muslims about Halal foods since many years without any financial gain. I am doing this job for the sake of Allah. Alhamdulillah you are doing it for sake of Allah.. now if only you did not see your own understanding to be so concrete as to overthrow the Mufties of deen.

Btw, last time when you asked Mufti Desai an opinion in a religious matter, how much did he charge you? Dont wory it was a rhetorical question.. What I mean is.. we all are sacrificing our time and money and life for sake of Allah.. without taking dimes.. that in itself is not the criteria for being correct in ones endeavor.

I do not know what date I send e-mail to Daruliftaa. A generic guess would also help me search for the email.. because If you had sent something about it.. I would surely have known of it.. Anyway.. out of sincerety .. you can send it again..

Please do not label me to follow American policy, I think you have gone beyond the healthy discussion. You have to be sorry for writing that I am following the American policy. I do not think that you do not have fair thoughts. I do not care about accepting my point of view I am not that hungry for that. It is up to Muslims whether to accept my opion or not. I am sorry if that hurt you.. but better from a sincere person than from some one out to dupe you.. Br. we know you dont care of being accepted.. therefore there is no point typing the same line again and again.. not in different threads .. rather in the same thread.. and in the same post.. It just feels that you are trying to push your opinion down my throat.. so I had to choke.

I am just bringing the fact that alcohol from any source are same scientifically and they are Haram. The first part is correct and the second part is disputed with difference of opinion.. So the second part cannot be a fact. You have misunderstood its shar'an implications and thus cannot grasp the difference of opinion.

Tell me brother.. Quran says Sayd al Bahr is halal.. Is whale a sayd al bahr? If so according to which madhab's definition? And which ever definition that is.. why not the others?? are they any less "factual" than the one you would pursue?

It is not a crime that a food scientist can make the decision on Halal status of a food product based on Quran, Hadith and science without going to a mufti. Is it a crime for a car sales man to give your prescription medication for Glycoma? If so, then yes it is a crime for a food scientist to make a decision n Halal status of a food product based on Quran, Hadith... If you wish to make a decision on the basis of Science.. then sure.. do so.. and do it without going to a mufti. But when it comes to Quran and Hadith.. you are the car sales man and Mufti is the Doctor to give the prescription of Glycoma..

Why you are ignoring the Hadith " Every intoxicant are Haram". Why are you ignoring the fact that you are trying to understand Arabic here and Khamr is a specific word for the juice of grapes. while other names are given seperately for others types of fermented juices... like Sakar, Naqee'...

btw.. can you give reference or arabic for the above hadeeth and then inshAllah I can talk about it..

There is no special alcohol obtained from grape and date. It happens that in those days Quamer is made from grape and date. 1. It is not Quamar.. It is Khamr with Khaa. Quamar is something completely different.
2. All the linguist in arabic are unanimous that Khamr is from juice of grapes. and is a special name for the juice made from grapes. It is not even a name for the juice for the dates - that is refered as either Naqee' Tamar or Nabeez Tamar... for non grapes there are other names.. then how can one say that they only could have khamr from these two dates and grapes!!

I am not looking for my work to be acredited, that is not my objective. My objective is that Muslims should bring only Halal foods from supermarkets to their homes and masajid. Alhumdulillah our website has over one half million hits every year, I have wrote and published 7 editions of Halal food book "A Comprehensive List of Halal Food products in US and Canadian supermarkets". Our website is recieved many e-mails from many countries including South Africa about Halal status of a food ingredient. I do not need any fame, I just want to serve Muslims for providing my food technology knowledge which Allah has given to me to spread among Muslims. You can not convience your opions to me nor me to you let Muslims decide about our opinions. Br.. you are the agressive party here.. you do not need to pleed innocence here. Our Ulama hold their opinion..open and clear.. You deny it so much that you are calling their opinion completely wrong and baseless. Again Alhamdulillah you are doing such good work, now if only there was a sense of accepting difference of opinion in you.. it would play great for future benefit of the ummah.

You told Muftiyaan that ethyl alcohol is same as from dates and grapes.. and intoxicates.. they accepted.. but ruled that if it is not from dates or grapes it does not follow the Hukm or hurmat rather is subjected to the Illah of intoxication as is the usool of Qiyas. Thus they ruled of its permissibility.. now if you follow the view of some other Ulama.. good for you.. but that does not invalidate the opinion of our Ulama who are as sound and as establish within shariah.