DiscussWorldIssues - Socio-Economic Religion and Political Uncensored Debate - View Single Post - Islamist party Al-Nahda claims victory in Tunisia poll 2011

**alecoplesosse** · 11-29-2011, 08:21 PM

I'm not contending the concept of tarbiyah, culturing, enlightening which enables people to leave jahiliya to enter iman and be more receptive to Islam.

But I don't agree with what has emerged as "gradualism" as it manifests in political affairs.

How does this allow for a political party such as an Nahda to implement haram and work within an unIslamic political system?
And how is this justified when the Prophet (saaw) refused to do as such?
Let us take note: advocating liberal capitalist economic measures (privatizing what belongs to the people, legalizing riba private banking, etc).

I don't mean to be argumentative, but I honestly want to understand how you understand it and present it.

I am wary of attempts to restrict the meaning of the Makkan period to ONLY this or that. It was common for some time for a salafi to assert that the Prophet (saaw) taught ONLY Tauhid in Makka for 13 years.
This is not a permissible restricton of the Risala.

But in any case, the matter is about ADVOCATING RULING BY HARAM AND KUFR.
This is what government fuqaha and even some rulers have initially claimed that they will gradually bring Islam. Sadat. Medienne in Turkey, and a host of other PM and presidents promised to bring and support Islam while ruling by kufr and enforcing haram.

Thus, if you agree with hizban Nahda, how do you accept ruling by kufr or haram laws and with what textual evidences?

Actually gradualism is not about accepting and using and implementing kufr. It is about basic human capacity. Suppose I ask my sub-ordinate to stand on one leg and then I demand that he raise the other leg also without putting the first leg down. Allah(SWT) does not make us responsible for more than our capacity. That is what gradualism is about. If am an alcoholic then sudden complete with drawl is not recommended by any physician. That is gradualism. When we talk about gradual implementation you are focusing on the un-implemented part. The trick is to focus on the implemented part. That is positive. That is progress. That is the thing that we should appreciate. As far as the un-implemented part is concerned it does not amount to kufr or disobedience because we do have intention to implement it in the next stage.
I'll give you an example from current affairs. In one of the south asian countries they implemented democracy by having elections. In the first session of the parliament they were punching each other in the face. Reason? No ground was prepared for implementation of democracy. This is what is the meaning of Meccan period. It is not merely Tauheed. It is Tauheed, Risaalat and Aakhirat. Of course Salafi can have their opinion for they shall answer for themselves and we need not bring them into present discussion. Take the case of Mutah. Beloved Prophet(PBUH), if my info is correct, allowed it initially but later he forbid it decisively. I'll take it as gradualism. The piecemeal revelation of the Holy Qur'an is a prime example of gradualism. Beloved Prophet(PBUH) was not bestowed with this as a whole in the book form. We must pay heed to the wisdom of our Lord Most High. When beloved Prophet(PBUH) was worried about non-appearance of the Holy Qur'an for some period then Allah(SWT) sent Hazrat Gibreel(AS) to assure him that no you have not been forsaken. What does it mean? The relevant portions will come in their time-and these did. If you ask a psychologist then he too will tell you that changes in behaviour and habit should be implemented gradually. Of course if you have the capacity to implement Shariah in a lump sum manner then you will be bound to do that. For the rest of us it is like memorizing four Verses per day. We can not drink whole of it in a day or weak or a month-in the context of memorization. As brother London points out that implementing of all of the things in a single go is impractical. We have due and complete reverence for Shariah and we are demanding gradual implementation only because of our human limitations. Of course if you are the Khalifa and you order for lump sum shariah implementation then minions like me will be obliged to do your bidding.

Remember if we do not get time to implement whole of it then Allah(SWT) did not will us to implement it all. But of course I do not see why Allah(SWT) will sweep the carpet from below our feet after we have implemented only 10, 20, 30, 60 or 90 percent of the Shariah.
Wassalam

11-29-2011, 08:21 PM	#32
alecoplesosse Join Date Nov 2005 Posts 473 Senior Member	I'm not contending the concept of tarbiyah, culturing, enlightening which enables people to leave jahiliya to enter iman and be more receptive to Islam. But I don't agree with what has emerged as "gradualism" as it manifests in political affairs. How does this allow for a political party such as an Nahda to implement haram and work within an unIslamic political system? And how is this justified when the Prophet (saaw) refused to do as such? Let us take note: advocating liberal capitalist economic measures (privatizing what belongs to the people, legalizing riba private banking, etc). I don't mean to be argumentative, but I honestly want to understand how you understand it and present it. I am wary of attempts to restrict the meaning of the Makkan period to ONLY this or that. It was common for some time for a salafi to assert that the Prophet (saaw) taught ONLY Tauhid in Makka for 13 years. This is not a permissible restricton of the Risala. But in any case, the matter is about ADVOCATING RULING BY HARAM AND KUFR. This is what government fuqaha and even some rulers have initially claimed that they will gradually bring Islam. Sadat. Medienne in Turkey, and a host of other PM and presidents promised to bring and support Islam while ruling by kufr and enforcing haram. Thus, if you agree with hizban Nahda, how do you accept ruling by kufr or haram laws and with what textual evidences? Actually gradualism is not about accepting and using and implementing kufr. It is about basic human capacity. Suppose I ask my sub-ordinate to stand on one leg and then I demand that he raise the other leg also without putting the first leg down. Allah(SWT) does not make us responsible for more than our capacity. That is what gradualism is about. If am an alcoholic then sudden complete with drawl is not recommended by any physician. That is gradualism. When we talk about gradual implementation you are focusing on the un-implemented part. The trick is to focus on the implemented part. That is positive. That is progress. That is the thing that we should appreciate. As far as the un-implemented part is concerned it does not amount to kufr or disobedience because we do have intention to implement it in the next stage. I'll give you an example from current affairs. In one of the south asian countries they implemented democracy by having elections. In the first session of the parliament they were punching each other in the face. Reason? No ground was prepared for implementation of democracy. This is what is the meaning of Meccan period. It is not merely Tauheed. It is Tauheed, Risaalat and Aakhirat. Of course Salafi can have their opinion for they shall answer for themselves and we need not bring them into present discussion. Take the case of Mutah. Beloved Prophet(PBUH), if my info is correct, allowed it initially but later he forbid it decisively. I'll take it as gradualism. The piecemeal revelation of the Holy Qur'an is a prime example of gradualism. Beloved Prophet(PBUH) was not bestowed with this as a whole in the book form. We must pay heed to the wisdom of our Lord Most High. When beloved Prophet(PBUH) was worried about non-appearance of the Holy Qur'an for some period then Allah(SWT) sent Hazrat Gibreel(AS) to assure him that no you have not been forsaken. What does it mean? The relevant portions will come in their time-and these did. If you ask a psychologist then he too will tell you that changes in behaviour and habit should be implemented gradually. Of course if you have the capacity to implement Shariah in a lump sum manner then you will be bound to do that. For the rest of us it is like memorizing four Verses per day. We can not drink whole of it in a day or weak or a month-in the context of memorization. As brother London points out that implementing of all of the things in a single go is impractical. We have due and complete reverence for Shariah and we are demanding gradual implementation only because of our human limitations. Of course if you are the Khalifa and you order for lump sum shariah implementation then minions like me will be obliged to do your bidding. Remember if we do not get time to implement whole of it then Allah(SWT) did not will us to implement it all. But of course I do not see why Allah(SWT) will sweep the carpet from below our feet after we have implemented only 10, 20, 30, 60 or 90 percent of the Shariah. Wassalam
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