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**ppfpooghn** · 11-14-2011, 03:03 AM

Ahmed
Please delete my quote from post 22.
Br. Abu Marwan
The reason for me saying such things is because I am calling for developing a culture of accountability by themsleves and by the elders. In tassawuf a person giving baya would put themselves forward for correction. This is not so in TJ as the effort for most is long term training. Some even end up doing the effort out of habbit rather then genuine concern. The reason for such stance is because of lack of connection with scholars of tassawuf. I suppose this is common for everyone.
I used to think the tassawuf was optional but now more i think about it, it is becomming a must for everyone. The culture of gratification, ego causes a culture of unaccoutability individually and collectively and the soecity at large suffer in every possible way.
HT is finished!! Some of them are found to be mole and now do the bidding of islamophobe. i generally don't trust people who talk of politics too much. Relegion is relegated to nothing more then an ism, similar to zionism. I tend to vomit it out!!

Allahualam

You make an interesting suggestion that everyone should follow tassawuf. There is much to be said for the discipline. The problem I have with it has to do with the mystic claims for authority. An authority structure is fine, but the mystical claims of many orders have no basis.

I agree with you about politics and Islam. It tends to create an "Islamism" (that's an actual word in French) and reduce Islam to a political ideology. Once Islam becomes an ideology it can be identified as evil, like Communism and Fascism. This is the usual MO of the Islamophobic right. They generally insist that Islam is an ideology, not a religion.

Structurally, political and religious power has been separate in Sunni Islam since the days of the Rightly Guided Caliphs. The only exception is under the Mutazila heresy, when the state attempted to impose an official doctrine. Imam Ahmad resisted them, ignored them, refused to participate. Imam Malik, also ignored power. He wrote the Muwatta on a political commission but warned that it should not be used to impose doctrine through the state.

The Shias ignored the state completely and did not discover politics until Imam Khomeini invented the new doctrine of the Wilayat-e-Fiqhi for them. This is what enabled the Islamic Revolution in Iran, and nothing else. It was a huge innovation for them, but they hardly noticed. They are accustomed to such things.

I'm interested in politics. It's important for Muslims. But it's also important to remember that Islam is above this. States and civilizations rise and fall. Political ideologies succeed for a while, then fail. People who declare Islam as their political party today, will find something new tomorrow. It's best to give them a wide berth and hope they find guidance before events sweep them away.

Salaam,

Abu Marwan

11-14-2011, 03:03 AM	#26
ppfpooghn Join Date Oct 2005 Posts 443 Senior Member	Ahmed Please delete my quote from post 22. Br. Abu Marwan The reason for me saying such things is because I am calling for developing a culture of accountability by themsleves and by the elders. In tassawuf a person giving baya would put themselves forward for correction. This is not so in TJ as the effort for most is long term training. Some even end up doing the effort out of habbit rather then genuine concern. The reason for such stance is because of lack of connection with scholars of tassawuf. I suppose this is common for everyone. I used to think the tassawuf was optional but now more i think about it, it is becomming a must for everyone. The culture of gratification, ego causes a culture of unaccoutability individually and collectively and the soecity at large suffer in every possible way. HT is finished!! Some of them are found to be mole and now do the bidding of islamophobe. i generally don't trust people who talk of politics too much. Relegion is relegated to nothing more then an ism, similar to zionism. I tend to vomit it out!! Allahualam You make an interesting suggestion that everyone should follow tassawuf. There is much to be said for the discipline. The problem I have with it has to do with the mystic claims for authority. An authority structure is fine, but the mystical claims of many orders have no basis. I agree with you about politics and Islam. It tends to create an "Islamism" (that's an actual word in French) and reduce Islam to a political ideology. Once Islam becomes an ideology it can be identified as evil, like Communism and Fascism. This is the usual MO of the Islamophobic right. They generally insist that Islam is an ideology, not a religion. Structurally, political and religious power has been separate in Sunni Islam since the days of the Rightly Guided Caliphs. The only exception is under the Mutazila heresy, when the state attempted to impose an official doctrine. Imam Ahmad resisted them, ignored them, refused to participate. Imam Malik, also ignored power. He wrote the Muwatta on a political commission but warned that it should not be used to impose doctrine through the state. The Shias ignored the state completely and did not discover politics until Imam Khomeini invented the new doctrine of the Wilayat-e-Fiqhi for them. This is what enabled the Islamic Revolution in Iran, and nothing else. It was a huge innovation for them, but they hardly noticed. They are accustomed to such things. I'm interested in politics. It's important for Muslims. But it's also important to remember that Islam is above this. States and civilizations rise and fall. Political ideologies succeed for a while, then fail. People who declare Islam as their political party today, will find something new tomorrow. It's best to give them a wide berth and hope they find guidance before events sweep them away. Salaam, Abu Marwan
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