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**wizardasa** · 11-02-2011, 10:15 PM

there is no contradiction there
it is just a description of a certain situation
for that man selling his property was too much and that is why he doubted in the instructions of Jesus but he had earlier come to Jesus to give him salvation.
Jesus showed him his heart's attitude (which in christinaity are more important than actions themselves)

Trinity is not any absurdity
you may be a brother and a father and a worker at the same time. one person, three roles.
God is ONE and God is Triune.
christians worship ONE GOD only
BUT in islam you deify a man (muhammad) whom you call the praised one and the glorious one
also in christianity when we get born again (accept Jesus as our Lord and Savior, our spirit gets regenerated and our nature changes) we simply BELIEVE in Jesus. we dont have to say that Jesus is Lord and ezecheil is His prophet or Isaiah is His prophet
but in islam in order to become a muslim you HAVE TO say that allah is god and muhammad his prophet... saying that muhammad is a a prophet is necessary to
become a muslim...you deify a man... also muhammad never performed any miracle (unlike Jesus Christ the Messiah) but islam says that he split the moon - so in order to do it (i assume he must have gone there on the flying carpet) islam has to deify muhammad
so muslims worship allah, muslims worship muhammad a mere man (warner only) and also muslims worship Kaaba - the black stone. the definition of worship is kiss, revere, bow down to and muslims do it all.... you pray to the black stone 5 times a day, you walk around it 7 times and expect the stone TO FORGIVE !!! you your sins, you kiss it and bow down to its image... that is worship even if you deny that but your actions speak louder than your words...

what people say about Trinity is not important at all. people have all kinds of ideas and opinions and they change them very often...
but what counts is the Bible
and the Bible clearly shows us from the first verses of the first book of the first chapter that God is Triune

Jesus came to the earth as a mere man and the devil came to temp (which is test) Jesus.
we ALL are subject to testing, grading, measuring, calculations.
tests and tempations show what is really in our hearts
the devil came to test Jesus because the devil knew what was the purpose of Jesus and he knew that Jesus is GOD and all the testings of the devil were purposed to undermine the divinity of Jesus... but of course Jesus is and was a Victorer in that
God is omnipresent and omnipotent and i dont see any problem that God the Father was in heaven and Jesus came to the earth in the flesh.
nothing invalidates the sacrifice of Jesus
Jesus saved us and His offering is available for you even now
God said that the wage of sin is death and God NEVER breaks His Word. never (unlike allah) so when He said that the wage of sin is death then either people (you and me) would have to die for our sins or Jesus came willingly to take all sins of the world upon Himself and He died IN OUR PLACE.... because of His immense love for humanity (uncomprehensible and unconditional)
God couldnt create a human being who would be sinless because He had already arranged that people are born from adam and eve and after adam and eve have sinned their nature became sinful and corrupt. God never breaks His promises and words. the ONLY way to redeem the world was by coming of a person with the human body (because the earth was given to people with human bodies) to pay in His body for the sins of the world
the Bible is amazingly logical and from the first book of the Bible to the very last one God speaks about salvation of people through Jesus
so John 3:16 is very very coherent and consistent with the whole message of the Bible talking about salvation of people through the redemption we receive IN Jesus Christ the Son of God

That's my point, the Bible is self-contradictory.

Isa flat-out says "Why are you attributing to me something that is attributed to God, only God has this (goodness)" And you say 'well this means blarghyblarghyblurghington,"

Alas! What foolishness that anyone would accept a doctrine as absurd as the trinity which has no textual basis. When Tawhid is simple, lucid, and clear.

People say "The Trinity is a mystery because God is a mystery, it is necessary to have faith in it but understanding it is impossible,"
But Paul said: "God is not the author of confusion," (Corinthians 14). It is more logical for Tawhid to be true than the trinity because Tawhid is not confusing, while the trinity is.

Isa was supposedly tempted by the devil? (Mark I) So God can be tempted by the devil?
Alternately, your translation of this idea- Isa was human on earth and God in the heavens (naudhubillah).
To that, I would reply- this invalidates the sacrifice, because it would have been just as simple for God to create a human who was sinless for the same purpose- so if a sinless human can die for the sins of the world (as this is what you claim happened) then John 3:16 is incoherent.

11-02-2011, 10:15 PM	#17
wizardasa Join Date Oct 2005 Posts 461 Senior Member	there is no contradiction there it is just a description of a certain situation for that man selling his property was too much and that is why he doubted in the instructions of Jesus but he had earlier come to Jesus to give him salvation. Jesus showed him his heart's attitude (which in christinaity are more important than actions themselves) Trinity is not any absurdity you may be a brother and a father and a worker at the same time. one person, three roles. God is ONE and God is Triune. christians worship ONE GOD only BUT in islam you deify a man (muhammad) whom you call the praised one and the glorious one also in christianity when we get born again (accept Jesus as our Lord and Savior, our spirit gets regenerated and our nature changes) we simply BELIEVE in Jesus. we dont have to say that Jesus is Lord and ezecheil is His prophet or Isaiah is His prophet but in islam in order to become a muslim you HAVE TO say that allah is god and muhammad his prophet... saying that muhammad is a a prophet is necessary to become a muslim...you deify a man... also muhammad never performed any miracle (unlike Jesus Christ the Messiah) but islam says that he split the moon - so in order to do it (i assume he must have gone there on the flying carpet) islam has to deify muhammad so muslims worship allah, muslims worship muhammad a mere man (warner only) and also muslims worship Kaaba - the black stone. the definition of worship is kiss, revere, bow down to and muslims do it all.... you pray to the black stone 5 times a day, you walk around it 7 times and expect the stone TO FORGIVE !!! you your sins, you kiss it and bow down to its image... that is worship even if you deny that but your actions speak louder than your words... what people say about Trinity is not important at all. people have all kinds of ideas and opinions and they change them very often... but what counts is the Bible and the Bible clearly shows us from the first verses of the first book of the first chapter that God is Triune Jesus came to the earth as a mere man and the devil came to temp (which is test) Jesus. we ALL are subject to testing, grading, measuring, calculations. tests and tempations show what is really in our hearts the devil came to test Jesus because the devil knew what was the purpose of Jesus and he knew that Jesus is GOD and all the testings of the devil were purposed to undermine the divinity of Jesus... but of course Jesus is and was a Victorer in that God is omnipresent and omnipotent and i dont see any problem that God the Father was in heaven and Jesus came to the earth in the flesh. nothing invalidates the sacrifice of Jesus Jesus saved us and His offering is available for you even now God said that the wage of sin is death and God NEVER breaks His Word. never (unlike allah) so when He said that the wage of sin is death then either people (you and me) would have to die for our sins or Jesus came willingly to take all sins of the world upon Himself and He died IN OUR PLACE.... because of His immense love for humanity (uncomprehensible and unconditional) God couldnt create a human being who would be sinless because He had already arranged that people are born from adam and eve and after adam and eve have sinned their nature became sinful and corrupt. God never breaks His promises and words. the ONLY way to redeem the world was by coming of a person with the human body (because the earth was given to people with human bodies) to pay in His body for the sins of the world the Bible is amazingly logical and from the first book of the Bible to the very last one God speaks about salvation of people through Jesus so John 3:16 is very very coherent and consistent with the whole message of the Bible talking about salvation of people through the redemption we receive IN Jesus Christ the Son of God That's my point, the Bible is self-contradictory. Isa flat-out says "Why are you attributing to me something that is attributed to God, only God has this (goodness)" And you say 'well this means blarghyblarghyblurghington," Alas! What foolishness that anyone would accept a doctrine as absurd as the trinity which has no textual basis. When Tawhid is simple, lucid, and clear. People say "The Trinity is a mystery because God is a mystery, it is necessary to have faith in it but understanding it is impossible," But Paul said: "God is not the author of confusion," (Corinthians 14). It is more logical for Tawhid to be true than the trinity because Tawhid is not confusing, while the trinity is. Isa was supposedly tempted by the devil? (Mark I) So God can be tempted by the devil? Alternately, your translation of this idea- Isa was human on earth and God in the heavens (naudhubillah). To that, I would reply- this invalidates the sacrifice, because it would have been just as simple for God to create a human who was sinless for the same purpose- so if a sinless human can die for the sins of the world (as this is what you claim happened) then John 3:16 is incoherent.
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