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**antipenq** · 10-19-2011, 07:54 AM

What does the takfir of Ibn Taymiyah prove? There is takfir by Ahmed Raza Khan Barelwi of Deobandis but many Deobandis do not respond in kind to Barelwis. And why bring up the bullet points of Barelwis and disprove them when Deobandis accept that there are lies attributed to him? And yet, they still see him as a Sufi shaykh, initiator of the Qadri order. There are lies attributed to glorious ulama of the past, that is true, but how do they negate that they were mutasawwifoon?

An appeal to authority was made earlier in this thread (not every appeal to authority is a logical fallacy) so i mentioned the Takfeer of Ibn Al-Arani by Shaykh Ul Islam Ibn Taymiyyah rahimahullah ( Imam Dhahabi , Ibn Kathir , Ibn Qayyum , Ibn Rajjab and many more prominent scholars have done the Takfeer of Ibn Al Arabi so that substantiates the Takfeer done by Ibn Taymiyyah). We both understand the difference between Shaykh Ul Islam rahimahullah and Ahmed Raza khan Barelvi so i don't think that was a good analogy. We both agree that those personalities were upright scholars of Ahli Sunnah Wal Jammat however you are adding the word "mutasawwifoon" to their names and character so you are making a positive claim and hence the burden of proof is on you brother. Why do you think that they were Sufis (A definition of Sufi here would be appreciated as well)? Or what was that something which was found additionally in these scholars which was not found in the non sufi scholars?

10-19-2011, 07:54 AM	#34
antipenq Join Date Oct 2005 Posts 394 Senior Member	What does the takfir of Ibn Taymiyah prove? There is takfir by Ahmed Raza Khan Barelwi of Deobandis but many Deobandis do not respond in kind to Barelwis. And why bring up the bullet points of Barelwis and disprove them when Deobandis accept that there are lies attributed to him? And yet, they still see him as a Sufi shaykh, initiator of the Qadri order. There are lies attributed to glorious ulama of the past, that is true, but how do they negate that they were mutasawwifoon? An appeal to authority was made earlier in this thread (not every appeal to authority is a logical fallacy) so i mentioned the Takfeer of Ibn Al-Arani by Shaykh Ul Islam Ibn Taymiyyah rahimahullah ( Imam Dhahabi , Ibn Kathir , Ibn Qayyum , Ibn Rajjab and many more prominent scholars have done the Takfeer of Ibn Al Arabi so that substantiates the Takfeer done by Ibn Taymiyyah). We both understand the difference between Shaykh Ul Islam rahimahullah and Ahmed Raza khan Barelvi so i don't think that was a good analogy. We both agree that those personalities were upright scholars of Ahli Sunnah Wal Jammat however you are adding the word "mutasawwifoon" to their names and character so you are making a positive claim and hence the burden of proof is on you brother. Why do you think that they were Sufis (A definition of Sufi here would be appreciated as well)? Or what was that something which was found additionally in these scholars which was not found in the non sufi scholars?
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