DiscussWorldIssues - Socio-Economic Religion and Political Uncensored Debate - View Single Post - Does Islam recognize the existence of Enlightenment?

**12ZHeWZa** · 05-05-2011, 01:13 PM

Interesting, are these Sufi views or Orthodox Islamic views, I was just wondering. Also, what is the name of the end goal of Sufism, as my guess is Sufism has an end goal of enlightenment. Like what is the arabic name for their end goal.

Actually this is a misconception, for Buddhists, enlightenment is supposed to be the complete and total annihlation of suffering. The Buddhist Enlightenment is where one's emotions are totally eradicated too.

An Enlightened Buddhist feels no: mental suffering, depression, pain (not physical pain), anxiety, hatred, desire etc.

I think the karma and chakra stuff is related to Hinduism or new age ideas

Zen Enlightenment is slightly more iffy, Jain enlightenment is the eradication of suffering too I think.

First lets get this straight - Sufism is Orthodox Islam - and the goal of every Muslim, not just sufis - is complete submission to Allah - Sufism is science within orthodox Islam, just as the science of hadeeth is within orthodox Islam - So, like the science of hadeeth which has its own special lingo to express the finer aspects of the science - sufism too has its own lingo.

So, sufism is the science of Islam which deals with this enlightenment you speak of - sufism is the science of the heart. The term used by many scholars to communicate this end goal "enlightenment: is "Fana" - or annihilation. So as you explained what the goal of an enlightened budhist is, this is not the goal of the one who seeks to annihilate himself - though Im sure this budhist enlightenment goes much deeper than just "being happy".

In Islam, one who is annihlated may still experience fear and depression and the spectrum of human emotion, however, they are pleased to do so - because doing so is the will of Allah - The person who is annihlated is known as a wali - and if Allah wants this wali to experience the pangs of hunger and has deprived this wali of any means to procure food - the wali says "MAy Allah be pleased, if Allah wants me to suffer - I want to suffer" - So the enlightened wali does not eradicate his emotions - he simply deals with them different from you or I.

A child is a good example of this - when I tell my 4 year old son he can not eat ice cream for dinner - he may cry and have an exagerated emotion to this mundane news - this is expected, to see a child cry after denying that childs nafs from recieveing something is common and not suprising - however, if I told my 26 year old brother he can not have ice cream, and my brother decides to throw himself on the floor and cry - this would be unusual. The child has not learned to cope with his emotions, where the adult has. You and I are child like in our concept of what is ours, and what we deserve in the world, and who is control - our nafs want what has not been written down 70,000 years before creation as to what would be ours. And many of us, like a child, throw a temper tantrum, when we discover that Allah has not given us something we feel we deserve. The wali has worked hard through various methods taught by tassawuf to take what Allah has given him, because he knows Allah is the only distributer of anything in creation.

It seems you are more versed in budhism than me, so I will let you decide if the two are the same, but fana is the destruction of oneself so that every action that one makes is an act of worship and done only for the sake of Allah - this state may entail a person to still experience emotions - there are many stories of the Awliya expressing anger, or sadness, or happiness. The end goal of every Muslim is to be like Muhamed

, and Muhamed

was annihilated, he did not speak a word or take a step by his own accord, every breath he took was for the pleasure of his Allah.

05-05-2011, 01:13 PM	#7
12ZHeWZa Join Date Oct 2005 Posts 431 Senior Member	Interesting, are these Sufi views or Orthodox Islamic views, I was just wondering. Also, what is the name of the end goal of Sufism, as my guess is Sufism has an end goal of enlightenment. Like what is the arabic name for their end goal. Actually this is a misconception, for Buddhists, enlightenment is supposed to be the complete and total annihlation of suffering. The Buddhist Enlightenment is where one's emotions are totally eradicated too. An Enlightened Buddhist feels no: mental suffering, depression, pain (not physical pain), anxiety, hatred, desire etc. I think the karma and chakra stuff is related to Hinduism or new age ideas Zen Enlightenment is slightly more iffy, Jain enlightenment is the eradication of suffering too I think. First lets get this straight - Sufism is Orthodox Islam - and the goal of every Muslim, not just sufis - is complete submission to Allah - Sufism is science within orthodox Islam, just as the science of hadeeth is within orthodox Islam - So, like the science of hadeeth which has its own special lingo to express the finer aspects of the science - sufism too has its own lingo. So, sufism is the science of Islam which deals with this enlightenment you speak of - sufism is the science of the heart. The term used by many scholars to communicate this end goal "enlightenment: is "Fana" - or annihilation. So as you explained what the goal of an enlightened budhist is, this is not the goal of the one who seeks to annihilate himself - though Im sure this budhist enlightenment goes much deeper than just "being happy". In Islam, one who is annihlated may still experience fear and depression and the spectrum of human emotion, however, they are pleased to do so - because doing so is the will of Allah - The person who is annihlated is known as a wali - and if Allah wants this wali to experience the pangs of hunger and has deprived this wali of any means to procure food - the wali says "MAy Allah be pleased, if Allah wants me to suffer - I want to suffer" - So the enlightened wali does not eradicate his emotions - he simply deals with them different from you or I. A child is a good example of this - when I tell my 4 year old son he can not eat ice cream for dinner - he may cry and have an exagerated emotion to this mundane news - this is expected, to see a child cry after denying that childs nafs from recieveing something is common and not suprising - however, if I told my 26 year old brother he can not have ice cream, and my brother decides to throw himself on the floor and cry - this would be unusual. The child has not learned to cope with his emotions, where the adult has. You and I are child like in our concept of what is ours, and what we deserve in the world, and who is control - our nafs want what has not been written down 70,000 years before creation as to what would be ours. And many of us, like a child, throw a temper tantrum, when we discover that Allah has not given us something we feel we deserve. The wali has worked hard through various methods taught by tassawuf to take what Allah has given him, because he knows Allah is the only distributer of anything in creation. It seems you are more versed in budhism than me, so I will let you decide if the two are the same, but fana is the destruction of oneself so that every action that one makes is an act of worship and done only for the sake of Allah - this state may entail a person to still experience emotions - there are many stories of the Awliya expressing anger, or sadness, or happiness. The end goal of every Muslim is to be like Muhamed , and Muhamed was annihilated, he did not speak a word or take a step by his own accord, every breath he took was for the pleasure of his Allah.
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