DiscussWorldIssues - Socio-Economic Religion and Political Uncensored Debate - View Single Post - Does Islam recognize the existence of Enlightenment?

**propolo** · 05-05-2011, 10:52 PM

Whooahh, really? Where in the Qur'an does it say that Muhammad reached annihlation or whatever? I thought he was just an ordinary human chosen by God?

Tbh I feel like I'm getting a lot of unorthodox views on Islam, like from the moderator above me and the other guy who implied that enlightenment would save someone from hell.

Wouldn't orthodox Islam say that the Buddha is in hell since he denied the existence of any eternally existing entity (hence God). He denied a creator and considered belief in God to be unhealty, Issara Nimana Vada.

I was looking for some Orthodox views on Islam, not like a new agey liberal concept that accepts the idea of enlightenment. Islam would reject spiritual enlightenment as a legitimate spiritual attainment right?

I mean aren't you views technically heretical according to Islam?

Anyways I'm sensing some hostility here so I'm out.

But yes I do know more about Buddhism than you, I was a Buddhist for several years and read all the commentarial bull****, stories, eschatology, mythology, background, teachings, suttas, controversies, pali terms, translated some pali etc.

I even have a legitimate claim to partial enlightenment in Theravada Buddhism (via Buddhaghosa and Pali commentaries (I reached a certain stage of meditation, sammasana nana)). Plus I know a bunch of stuff about other world religions, occult theories, paranormal events etc. A bunch of **** really (sort of fills my head up).

Peace.

Hi, I am a salafi muslim who sticks staunchly to what can be found within the qur'an and hadeeth so perhaps we can discuss tehse issues as you dont seem to be interested in speaking to muslims who have already adopted some of your religion into theirs and who make the religion up as they go along.

As for whether Buddah is in Hell, we believe we can only affirm hell for those individuals who Allah has affirmed hell for such as some individuals alive in the time of the prophet. Also we believe that messengers were sent to various people and they corrupted those messages, e.g. Jesus was sent to call to people to worship one god and the people even started to deify him. Even some muslims deify the prophet (Such as the sufis). So we cant be sure if he was a messenger from god who's message was corrupted by man, or if he called to the hellfire. We just dont know. What we can say, is that if you follow the path of buddism, this is undoubtedly a path that leads to hell in the Islaamic view. UNless you have never heard of Islaam in which case you will be tested in the day of judgement and all your relgigious acts in this life will still be rendered useless.

The end goal in Islaam is the attainment of paradise. We believe Allah created us to worship him.

We believe to prostrate before a man made idol like teh buddah statue is the worst possible sin as you are giving the right of God to a created lump of metal. There is a concept of pruifying your heart in Islaam in order to aid you in your worship of God however, but not the sufi version where you can become one with god and all that nonsense. But Allah says:

"Indeed whosoever purifies himself shall achieve success" (Al-A'la 87:14)

There is definitely a concept of purifying your soul (tazkiyyah). Salafis believe you achieve this through avoiding sins, ridding yourself of polytheism, reading qur'an, seeking knowledge of the religion etc. The sufis have other ideas so Ill leave them to explain what sufis think. They will also try to tell you they are orthodox Islaam, as practiced for centuries (they forget to mention they started off as a heretic movement that was brought to a bit more mainstream by ghazali and also that there were no sufis in the first three generations of Islaam in terms of people who do what todays sufis do, and I challenege anyone to bring me some narrations showing me that the salaf did the crazy wack sufi practices todays sufis do)

05-05-2011, 10:52 PM	#13
propolo Join Date Oct 2005 Posts 480 Senior Member	Whooahh, really? Where in the Qur'an does it say that Muhammad reached annihlation or whatever? I thought he was just an ordinary human chosen by God? Tbh I feel like I'm getting a lot of unorthodox views on Islam, like from the moderator above me and the other guy who implied that enlightenment would save someone from hell. Wouldn't orthodox Islam say that the Buddha is in hell since he denied the existence of any eternally existing entity (hence God). He denied a creator and considered belief in God to be unhealty, Issara Nimana Vada. I was looking for some Orthodox views on Islam, not like a new agey liberal concept that accepts the idea of enlightenment. Islam would reject spiritual enlightenment as a legitimate spiritual attainment right? I mean aren't you views technically heretical according to Islam? Anyways I'm sensing some hostility here so I'm out. But yes I do know more about Buddhism than you, I was a Buddhist for several years and read all the commentarial bull**, stories, eschatology, mythology, background, teachings, suttas, controversies, pali terms, translated some pali etc. I even have a legitimate claim to partial enlightenment in Theravada Buddhism (via Buddhaghosa and Pali commentaries (I reached a certain stage of meditation, sammasana nana)). Plus I know a bunch of stuff about other world religions, occult theories, paranormal events etc. A bunch of ** really (sort of fills my head up). Peace. Hi, I am a salafi muslim who sticks staunchly to what can be found within the qur'an and hadeeth so perhaps we can discuss tehse issues as you dont seem to be interested in speaking to muslims who have already adopted some of your religion into theirs and who make the religion up as they go along. As for whether Buddah is in Hell, we believe we can only affirm hell for those individuals who Allah has affirmed hell for such as some individuals alive in the time of the prophet. Also we believe that messengers were sent to various people and they corrupted those messages, e.g. Jesus was sent to call to people to worship one god and the people even started to deify him. Even some muslims deify the prophet (Such as the sufis). So we cant be sure if he was a messenger from god who's message was corrupted by man, or if he called to the hellfire. We just dont know. What we can say, is that if you follow the path of buddism, this is undoubtedly a path that leads to hell in the Islaamic view. UNless you have never heard of Islaam in which case you will be tested in the day of judgement and all your relgigious acts in this life will still be rendered useless. The end goal in Islaam is the attainment of paradise. We believe Allah created us to worship him. We believe to prostrate before a man made idol like teh buddah statue is the worst possible sin as you are giving the right of God to a created lump of metal. There is a concept of pruifying your heart in Islaam in order to aid you in your worship of God however, but not the sufi version where you can become one with god and all that nonsense. But Allah says: "Indeed whosoever purifies himself shall achieve success" (Al-A'la 87:14) There is definitely a concept of purifying your soul (tazkiyyah). Salafis believe you achieve this through avoiding sins, ridding yourself of polytheism, reading qur'an, seeking knowledge of the religion etc. The sufis have other ideas so Ill leave them to explain what sufis think. They will also try to tell you they are orthodox Islaam, as practiced for centuries (they forget to mention they started off as a heretic movement that was brought to a bit more mainstream by ghazali and also that there were no sufis in the first three generations of Islaam in terms of people who do what todays sufis do, and I challenege anyone to bring me some narrations showing me that the salaf did the crazy wack sufi practices todays sufis do)
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