DiscussWorldIssues - Socio-Economic Religion and Political Uncensored Debate - View Single Post - Proof for asking the Prophet to make dua for you?

**roundman** · 06-20-2011, 10:28 PM

There are three possible ways of looking at this tradition:

Discuss the Authenticity of this text and we can argue back and forth as both sides can quote enough Scholars of Hadeeth
Take the narration on face value and it categorically proves that it is permissable to go to the grave of Rasul-ullah and make dua
Interpret the narration and thus show that Rasul-ullah taught correct Aqeedah to the man in a dream

If you want to take option 3 then we will say prove to us that Sayyidina Umar (RA) REBUKED or REFUTED the man on his action. That narration is analysed with the understanding of some classical scholars in this article.

Narration of Malik al Dar, evidence for Tawassul by the living & not by the Prophet after his death

The reply to your objection is given as:

The ones who use this hadith for this type of tawassul say that Umar radiyallahu anhu did not rebuke the man who did istisqa’ at the grave.

Reply:
There is no clear evidence in the hadith indicating that the man told Umar of him going to the grave, but clearly he did tell him of the dream, telling him the message of the Prophet sallallahu alayhi wa sallam. So to say that he told him about his istisqa’ at the grave is an assumption, and we can’t use assumptions as evidence.

There is no evidence that Umar radiyallahu anhu knew about the man going to the grave of the Prophet sallallahu alayhi wa sallam. I will explain it to you in the following points insha Allah:

1. In the narration it says (The man went and told `Umar), it does not mention what the man told Umar, if he told him that he went to the grave and about the dream, or if he ONLY told him about the dream. We know for sure that he told him about the dream but we don’t have any evidence that he told him about him going to the grave.

It is just an assumption, and we can’t use assumptions as evidence.

2. If the man told Umar radiyallahu anhu that he went to the grave of the Prophet sallallahu alayhi wa sallam and made tawassul through him, then why would Umar radiyallahu anhu make tawassul through al Abbas after knowing that?

Isn’t the tawassul through the Prophet sallallahu alayhi wa sallam sufficient? and he is the best creation of Allah !

There is no apart from this business once an Athar has been established to be Authentic, you can't go around saying "apart from this and that" Brother, the reason I am asking for any other evidences is because the understanding of that narration is in doubt. And if the act was "commendable and most virtuous" then surely there would be other evidences for it as well.

If there arent other proofs then why shouldnt the following principle apply in this case:

"If there is a doubt whether a practice is Sunnah or bid'ah, then to omit a Sunnah is better than perpetrating a bid'ah."

06-20-2011, 10:28 PM	#6
roundman Join Date Oct 2005 Posts 541 Senior Member	There are three possible ways of looking at this tradition: Discuss the Authenticity of this text and we can argue back and forth as both sides can quote enough Scholars of Hadeeth Take the narration on face value and it categorically proves that it is permissable to go to the grave of Rasul-ullah and make dua Interpret the narration and thus show that Rasul-ullah taught correct Aqeedah to the man in a dream If you want to take option 3 then we will say prove to us that Sayyidina Umar (RA) REBUKED or REFUTED the man on his action. That narration is analysed with the understanding of some classical scholars in this article. Narration of Malik al Dar, evidence for Tawassul by the living & not by the Prophet after his death The reply to your objection is given as: The ones who use this hadith for this type of tawassul say that Umar radiyallahu anhu did not rebuke the man who did istisqa’ at the grave. Reply: There is no clear evidence in the hadith indicating that the man told Umar of him going to the grave, but clearly he did tell him of the dream, telling him the message of the Prophet sallallahu alayhi wa sallam. So to say that he told him about his istisqa’ at the grave is an assumption, and we can’t use assumptions as evidence. There is no evidence that Umar radiyallahu anhu knew about the man going to the grave of the Prophet sallallahu alayhi wa sallam. I will explain it to you in the following points insha Allah: 1. In the narration it says (The man went and told `Umar), it does not mention what the man told Umar, if he told him that he went to the grave and about the dream, or if he ONLY told him about the dream. We know for sure that he told him about the dream but we don’t have any evidence that he told him about him going to the grave. It is just an assumption, and we can’t use assumptions as evidence. 2. If the man told Umar radiyallahu anhu that he went to the grave of the Prophet sallallahu alayhi wa sallam and made tawassul through him, then why would Umar radiyallahu anhu make tawassul through al Abbas after knowing that? Isn’t the tawassul through the Prophet sallallahu alayhi wa sallam sufficient? and he is the best creation of Allah ! There is no apart from this business once an Athar has been established to be Authentic, you can't go around saying "apart from this and that" Brother, the reason I am asking for any other evidences is because the understanding of that narration is in doubt. And if the act was "commendable and most virtuous" then surely there would be other evidences for it as well. If there arent other proofs then why shouldnt the following principle apply in this case: "If there is a doubt whether a practice is Sunnah or bid'ah, then to omit a Sunnah is better than perpetrating a bid'ah."
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