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**layedgebiamma** · 06-13-2011, 01:18 AM

I made the statement of the categorisation of the Sufiyyahs, because Shaykh Ibn Taymiyyah did so and to this i provided the proof, but for some reason you have taken a task upon your shoulders to prove that there is no type of 'sufism' alive today which fulfils the category of Sufiyah al-Haqaa'iq (true sufis) as mentioned by Shaykh Ibn Taymiyyah.

For that you claim it is you my brother that needs to substantiate from his works not me, since i didnt make this claim.

Not only is the fatwa interesting, these types gathering for many Sufis is the bedrock / foundation of their whole Tariqahs.

As for wanting to know about what Shaykh Ibn Taymiyyah mentions regarding the three types of Sufis, then he mentions:

http://www.islamweb.net/newlibrary/d...k_no=22&ID=651

فأما " صوفية الحقائق " : فهم الذين وصفناهم .

وأما " صوفية الأرزاق " فهم الذين وقفت عليهم الوقوف . كالخوانك فلا يشترط في هؤلاء أن يكونوا من أهل الحقائق . فإن هذا عزيز وأكثر أهل الحقائق لا يتصفون بلزوم الخوانك ; ولكن يشترط فيهم ثلاثة شروط : ( أحدها العدالة الشرعية بحيث يؤدون الفرائض ويجتنبون المحارم .

و ( الثاني التأدب بآداب أهل الطريق وهي الآداب الشرعية في غالب الأوقات وأما الآداب البدعية الوضعية فلا يلتفت إليها .

و ( الثالث أن لا يكون أحدهم متمسكا بفضول الدنيا فأما من كان جماعا للمال أو كان غير متخلق بالأخلاق المحمودة ولا يتأدب بالآداب الشرعية أو كان فاسقا فإنه لا يستحق ذلك .

وأما " صوفية الرسم " فهم المقتصرون على النسبة فهمهم في اللباس [ ص: 20 ] والآداب الوضعية ونحو ذلك فهؤلاء في الصوفية بمنزلة الذي يقتصر على زي أهل العلم وأهل الجهاد ونوع ما من أقوالهم وأعمالهم بحيث يظن الجاهل حقيقة أمره أنه منهم وليس منهم

As for Turooq then he isn't talking about any specific ones ,in any of the cases. Just those misguided individuals for the latter two. Moreover the Sufi Tariqahs were well in vogue at the time of Shaykh Ibn Taymiyyah and the term 'Sufiyah' and 'Tasawwuf' were only applied to them hence approving of all of them.

You may want to read this, the first post - it has some excerpts from the link translated:

http://www.sunniforum.com/forum/show...ll=1#post57938

Ibn al-'Arabi is not a yardstick to measure what true Sufism is or isn't, and im sure you know this - because as i mentioned even Ibn Taymiyyah praised his other Sufi works.

I'm not making a claim. Rather, I'm asking a question. If one could make a summation of, say, the practices of the four major tariqas (Qadiri, Naqshbandi (not sure which one would have been around at his time), Chishti, and Suhrawardiyya) and then ascertain which of these practices are explicitly mentioned in the Sunnah as legislated, then this would certainly be a vast proof in favor of Sufism. However, I am myself aware that this is not necessarily the case in terms of how people argue for Sufism. For example, in Maulana Muhammad Zakariyya Kandhalwi's treatise, Shariat and Tariqat, he instead takes a different tack- I'm sure you've read the book.

Gatherings are indeed one of the foundations of Tariqahs. However, what sort of gathering is being described? A gathering in which a hadra is done- or a gathering in which people remember Allah through various ways of doing so, such as reading al-Qur'an, doing dhikr? What sort of gathering is being promoted?

As for that article, it was written by Hisham Kabbani and I have no idea why you would turn to such a person to substantiate claims of Ibn Taymiyyah's approval or disapproval of anything; I have read such articles by him and his crew (GF Haddad, and the others) in the past only to find interesting distortions and vast inconsistencies; not to mention the strange practices that the Naqshbandi-Haqqani tariqah seems to promote.

Okay, if Ibn Arabi' isn't a yardstick to measure sufism with, what orders nowadays do not refer to him as Shaykh al-Akbar? This too would be a great proof in their favor.

06-13-2011, 01:18 AM	#25
layedgebiamma Join Date Oct 2005 Posts 454 Senior Member	I made the statement of the categorisation of the Sufiyyahs, because Shaykh Ibn Taymiyyah did so and to this i provided the proof, but for some reason you have taken a task upon your shoulders to prove that there is no type of 'sufism' alive today which fulfils the category of Sufiyah al-Haqaa'iq (true sufis) as mentioned by Shaykh Ibn Taymiyyah. For that you claim it is you my brother that needs to substantiate from his works not me, since i didnt make this claim. Not only is the fatwa interesting, these types gathering for many Sufis is the bedrock / foundation of their whole Tariqahs. As for wanting to know about what Shaykh Ibn Taymiyyah mentions regarding the three types of Sufis, then he mentions: http://www.islamweb.net/newlibrary/d...k_no=22&ID=651 فأما " صوفية الحقائق " : فهم الذين وصفناهم . وأما " صوفية الأرزاق " فهم الذين وقفت عليهم الوقوف . كالخوانك فلا يشترط في هؤلاء أن يكونوا من أهل الحقائق . فإن هذا عزيز وأكثر أهل الحقائق لا يتصفون بلزوم الخوانك ; ولكن يشترط فيهم ثلاثة شروط : ( أحدها العدالة الشرعية بحيث يؤدون الفرائض ويجتنبون المحارم . و ( الثاني التأدب بآداب أهل الطريق وهي الآداب الشرعية في غالب الأوقات وأما الآداب البدعية الوضعية فلا يلتفت إليها . و ( الثالث أن لا يكون أحدهم متمسكا بفضول الدنيا فأما من كان جماعا للمال أو كان غير متخلق بالأخلاق المحمودة ولا يتأدب بالآداب الشرعية أو كان فاسقا فإنه لا يستحق ذلك . وأما " صوفية الرسم " فهم المقتصرون على النسبة فهمهم في اللباس [ ص: 20 ] والآداب الوضعية ونحو ذلك فهؤلاء في الصوفية بمنزلة الذي يقتصر على زي أهل العلم وأهل الجهاد ونوع ما من أقوالهم وأعمالهم بحيث يظن الجاهل حقيقة أمره أنه منهم وليس منهم As for Turooq then he isn't talking about any specific ones ,in any of the cases. Just those misguided individuals for the latter two. Moreover the Sufi Tariqahs were well in vogue at the time of Shaykh Ibn Taymiyyah and the term 'Sufiyah' and 'Tasawwuf' were only applied to them hence approving of all of them. You may want to read this, the first post - it has some excerpts from the link translated: http://www.sunniforum.com/forum/show...ll=1#post57938 Ibn al-'Arabi is not a yardstick to measure what true Sufism is or isn't, and im sure you know this - because as i mentioned even Ibn Taymiyyah praised his other Sufi works. I'm not making a claim. Rather, I'm asking a question. If one could make a summation of, say, the practices of the four major tariqas (Qadiri, Naqshbandi (not sure which one would have been around at his time), Chishti, and Suhrawardiyya) and then ascertain which of these practices are explicitly mentioned in the Sunnah as legislated, then this would certainly be a vast proof in favor of Sufism. However, I am myself aware that this is not necessarily the case in terms of how people argue for Sufism. For example, in Maulana Muhammad Zakariyya Kandhalwi's treatise, Shariat and Tariqat, he instead takes a different tack- I'm sure you've read the book. Gatherings are indeed one of the foundations of Tariqahs. However, what sort of gathering is being described? A gathering in which a hadra is done- or a gathering in which people remember Allah through various ways of doing so, such as reading al-Qur'an, doing dhikr? What sort of gathering is being promoted? As for that article, it was written by Hisham Kabbani and I have no idea why you would turn to such a person to substantiate claims of Ibn Taymiyyah's approval or disapproval of anything; I have read such articles by him and his crew (GF Haddad, and the others) in the past only to find interesting distortions and vast inconsistencies; not to mention the strange practices that the Naqshbandi-Haqqani tariqah seems to promote. Okay, if Ibn Arabi' isn't a yardstick to measure sufism with, what orders nowadays do not refer to him as Shaykh al-Akbar? This too would be a great proof in their favor.
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