View Single Post
Old 06-13-2011, 02:18 AM   #26
RogHammon

Join Date
Oct 2005
Posts
598
Senior Member
Default
I'm not making a claim. Rather, I'm asking a question. If one could make a summation of, say, the practices of the four major tariqas (Qadiri, Naqshbandi (not sure which one would have been around at his time), Chishti, and Suhrawardiyya) and then ascertain which of these practices are explicitly mentioned in the Sunnah as legislated, then this would certainly be a vast proof in favor of Sufism. However, I am myself aware that this is not necessarily the case in terms of how people argue for Sufism. For example, in Maulana Muhammad Zakariyya Kandhalwi's treatise, Shariat and Tariqat, he instead takes a different tack- I'm sure you've read the book.
Yes you did make the claim, you said:

What Tariqa indeed would fit into Shaykh Ibn Taymiyyah's Sufism paradigm? I doubt very much that the ones nowadays would. So now it is upto you to provide how NO Tariqah alive today do not represent Shaykh Ibn Taymiyyah's understanding of Sufism. and please stop saying that you didn't make any claims when you infact did.

Why are you now taking a different route? you first talk about of what Shaykh Ibn Taymiyyah mentions and his paradigms and now you have leaped to whether or not it is legislated in the sunnah, if you want to talk about what Ibn Taymiyyah mentioned specifcially then fine i will discuss, but if you want to change topics then by all means you carry on by yourself. There is no legislation of Tariqahs in the Sunnah by name, but the application of it is clearly shown i.e. tazkiyah al-Nafs / Ihsan.

Shaykh ibn Taymiyyah himself answers:

http://www.islamweb.net/newlibrary/d..._no=22&ID=1727

فأجاب : الاجتماع لذكر الله واستماع كتابه والدعاء عمل صالح وهو من أفضل القربات والعبادات في الأوقات ففي الصحيح عن [ ص: 521 ] النبي صلى الله عليه وسلم أنه قال : { إن لله ملائكة سياحين في الأرض فإذا مروا بقوم يذكرون الله تنادوا هلموا إلى حاجتكم } وذكر الحديث وفيه { وجدناهم يسبحونك ويحمدونك }

Ibn Taymiyyah clearly quotes the mash-hur hadith that is used by people who participate in Dhikr gatherings.

Maybe you want to see something different, Shaykh Ibn Taymiyyah was aked regarding large amounts of Tahleel counts (70,000) helping the Mayyit from the emancipation of the Naar:

http://islamweb.net/newlibrary/displ...=22&startno=31

وسئل عمن " هلل سبعين ألف مرة وأهداه للميت يكون براءة للميت من النار " حديث صحيح ؟ أم لا ؟ وإذا هلل الإنسان وأهداه إلى الميت يصل إليه ثوابه أم لا ؟

he answered:

فأجاب : إذا هلل الإنسان هكذا : سبعون ألفا أو أقل أو أكثر . وأهديت إليه نفعه الله بذلك وليس هذا حديثا صحيحا ولا ضعيفا . والله أعلم

Although he said it is not a hadith, he did say it will help the Mayyit. Infact pay attention; he did not even repudiate the counting of 70,000 Tahleels, which is a slient approval for counting many Dhikrs even for oneself in Dhikr gatherings.

So, do you want to stick to what Shaykh Ibn Taymiyyah says regarding Tasawwuf and it's various practices?

Gatherings are indeed one of the foundations of Tariqahs. However, what sort of gathering is being described? A gathering in which a hadra is done- or a gathering in which people remember Allah through various ways of doing so, such as reading al-Qur'an, doing dhikr? What sort of gathering is being promoted? Well, obivously, you never paid attention to my words before; i clearly said, Music, Singing, Dancing is not part of many Sufi gatherings, many are against this and call it HARAAM, which i am also.

Gatherings of Dhikr, Qur'an and Du'a as mentioned by Shaykh Ibn Taymiyyah is what i am for.

As for that article, it was written by Hisham Kabbani and I have no idea why you would turn to such a person to substantiate claims of Ibn Taymiyyah's approval or disapproval of anything; I have read such articles by him and his crew (GF Haddad, and the others) in the past only to find interesting distortions and vast inconsistencies; not to mention the strange practices that the Naqshbandi-Haqqani tariqah seems to promote. The whole reason i gave you the article, was that many of the excerpts i posted from Ibn Taymiyyahs' Majmu have been translated there. Doesn't mean i am inadvertantly promoting kabbani. I am not turning to him, as i have clearly pasted the direct words of Ibn Taymiyyah without the need of Kabbani, the link was to get a gist of what bn Taymiyyah said, not to read the conclusion of the author..

Okay, if Ibn Arabi' isn't a yardstick to measure sufism with, what orders nowadays do not refer to him as Shaykh al-Akbar? This too would be a great proof in their favor. Even if they call him Shaykh al-Akbar, that doesn't mean the Tasawwuf they practice is any different to that of what Shaykh Ibn Taymiyyah himself practiced and praised. Because Ibn Taymiyyah himself praises Ibn al-'Arabi's other books besides Fusoos. We are talking about a science called Tasawwuf, please stick to it.
RogHammon is offline


 

All times are GMT +1. The time now is 05:53 PM.
Copyright ©2000 - 2012, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Design & Developed by Amodity.com
Copyright© Amodity